Monitoring Player wealth. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Monitoring Player wealth. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Keyar81
05-23-07, 01:04 PM When monitoring player wealth, I total up all the normal gear's value as listed in the equipment chapter of the phb. Then i total up all magic items' value as listed in the dmg using the market value listed in the magic items section. Then i divide this total by 2, because any gear is only worth half price to a merchant. then i add in all monies, and compare the grand total of all that to the tables in the dmg for wealth, p51 & 54. I'm basically asking if i'm doing this correctly.
Inigo Carmine
05-23-07, 01:28 PM You don't halve the cost of their equipment. For determining the player's wealth, you take the full value of all their stuff.
darkeness
05-23-07, 01:32 PM You don't halve the cost of their equipment. For determining the player's wealth, you take the full value of all their stuff.

I'll second that! :D
Keyar81
05-23-07, 02:39 PM p. 168 of the phb suggests a method for fairly splitting treasure. It suggests that you total up all the monies, and half the value of the magic items/gear and split it accordingly and evenly.
The example goes Jozan, Lidda, Mialee, and Tordek split a treasure of 5,000gp and a +1 heavy steel shield, the group would count the magic shield as worth 500gp, roughly half the price you would pay to buy one. With the treasure worth 5500 gp, 3 chars would recieve 1375 gp, and the other, would get the shield(valued at 500gp) plus 875.
Lets assume this party for some reason has nothing that for some reason they're all naked with no assets but the treasure they just took. 3 characters now have 1375 gp they have gained. and the fourth has the shield, plus 875 gp.
Now if I were to check his wealth level at this moment, He would have gained an extra 500gp worth of assets over the other char, because as you guys have stated, i use the full cost of gear when tallying wealth. However, half the value was used when determining how to split this treasure. so the shield carrier, has 875 gp+ his shield costing 1000gp.
Am I missing something here? the simple fix of course would to be to use the full value when splitting treasure, otherwise a char with more magic items might pull ahead substantially from the other characters in wealth over time.
Just wondering if i'm missing something, or if indeed these two sources tend to contradict each other.
Karui_Kage
05-23-07, 03:37 PM The reason that method is suggested for splitting treasure is because of merchants. If you find 6,000 GP, and Gloves of Dex +2 (4,000), with 4 players, then you would give 2,000 GP each to 3, and let whoever wanted the Gloves of Dex +2 to have them. Yes, that player does get slightly more use out of them, but the reason they count for 2K is if no one could use them, for example. Then the player would have to sell them, and would only get 2K. It wouldn't be fair to give him a 2K value item instead, and call it even, because selling it would only net him 1K.

So in terms of splitting treasure 'evenly', you treat magic items and anything that would need to be 'sold' in the future as half cost.

In terms of suggested player wealth, going by the table in the DMG, treat everything as full cost.

Hope that helps.
Kouk
05-23-07, 03:39 PM Well, that is for dividing things amongst themselves.

If nobody wants an item then they will of course just sell it for half.

If somebody does want the item, then his share only counts as half, because that is what the party could have otherwise gotten for selling it to an NPC. This way, the other members do not actually "lose" any money they might otherwise have been able to gain, and the member that takes the item gets it for half price.

The items are still worth full price to a player, they just couldn't be re-sold to an NPC for that amount.

Wealth-by-level is for the purpose of the DM knowing how much the gear is worth to the players, or rather, how much they could have bought it all for if they had bought the gear new from a merchant. This way, it doesn't especially matter how they accumulated their gear - whether from you just always giving monetary rewards or from actually finding useful things on defeated enemies.
Phrennzy
05-23-07, 04:26 PM We -kinda- use the full value, more or less. But we also only give out items if you can use them, otherwise they are sold. I've never been in a group where there has been a great deal of protest over this, since everyone pulls for each other.

Besides which, wealth by character level can be a rough estimate, not an exact number,
Keyar81
05-23-07, 06:44 PM Ya makes sense. I'm currently dm'ing a new campaign. So i thought i'd check the wealth levels between sessions, mainly because some of the characters have recently leveled and some are getting ready to. I tallied up the group as follows

lvl 2 Ranger (1447 xp) = 662 gp (total of all monies and assets at full price)
lvl 1 Paladin (947 xp) = 1303gp
lvl 1 Druid (960xp) = 892gp
lvl 2 Sorcerer (1447xp) = 1390gp
lvl 2 Cleric (1147xp) = 1642gp

Certainly I understand that the wealth guides in the dmg are just that, rough estimates/guidelines (of course this is true of much of the 'rules' in the game) but to me it certainly seems the ranger has much too little and the cleric and paladin have somewhat too much.
DwarvenArcher
05-23-07, 08:00 PM Ugh. I used to give my players full value when they sold their stuff. No wonder the party was so optimised, oops. :embarrass
Keyar81
05-23-07, 08:07 PM hehe i used to dm for ad&d 2nd edition in highschool. After several years of not playing any pnp rpg, and them coming back as a new dm for 3.5 for a group of new players who have never played a pnp rpg, i can say my brain aint what it used to be. I no longer remember things quite as sharply and easily as i did almost a decade ago. though this is improving, i still find myself forgetting to add in small numbers, like forgetting that the druid's ac goes down because she put her shield away and is now using her lightcrossbow with both hands, or occasionally forgetting to use the flat footed ac when necessary. Simply because i'm the only one that has much understanding of the rules, and the players seem to have little interest in reading even small sections of the rules, or familiarizing themselves with their skills or spells. So they're still a work in progress =p.
Kouk
05-23-07, 08:34 PM If the ranger has much less than everyone, it may be he just never has found anything worth keeping and using, or he uses up all expendable items very quickly.
Father Dale
06-14-07, 02:40 AM And typically, a rangers items won't cost as much as a clerics or paladin's especially at early levels. The paladin and cleric likely are wearing heavier and more expensive armors and shields, which probably represents the majority of their wealth.
Tolby
06-17-07, 08:06 PM to the OP:

Do not divide the Magic items by two.

As far as dividing trease. In the groups i DM and play in what we do is hand the item to whoever it would benefit the most. then divide out the GP of it amoung the players. In this way we don't gimp the clerics when we find wand of CLW or argue who has to suck up taking the bag of holding.
BroadStreetBully
06-18-07, 03:04 PM I personally wouldn't worry about an 800 gp wealth difference between two PC's, especially at that level. by 5th level it will all even out, and if not you should look at what kinds of treasure you're putting into the module. just make sure that everyone has a chance to find a nice item that their character can use, and balance the frequency with which that happens for the separate PC's. as long as you do that, only the pettiest of players will notice if Harry has 500 gold more than Jack.
Pathanus
06-25-07, 09:42 PM Something like this might work for you: spreadsheet application helps for this

All wealth gained totaled in a single pool using market values where applicable.
Wealth gained split evenly between players. Any 'party' items, like useful wands/potions/scrolls may be subtracted out before this distribution. (I'll assume 4 players)
Players use their share to purchase items from the pool at market value. When a player buys something from the pool, those funds are then distributed to the other 3 players equally. ex. Tordek uses some of his share to buy a +1 greatsword, market value of 2350 gold, the other 3 PC's each receive [2350/3] or 783.33 gp into their share
Any remaining items the players don't want to keep are sold, at 50% if applicable and the final totals for each player are adjusted accordingly.

Using this method makes it beneficial for characters to use items they find since they receive less actual gold for things they need to sell to merchants.

This also requires player participation and common sense. Players should not horde their treasure in actual gold pieces because being well equipped helps the party.
JustinA
06-27-07, 06:05 AM Certainly I understand that the wealth guides in the dmg are just that, rough estimates/guidelines (of course this is true of much of the 'rules' in the game) but to me it certainly seems the ranger has much too little and the cleric and paladin have somewhat too much.

As a DM, I wouldn't worry too much about wealth balance within the party: The players will split up the wealth however they feel fit. About the only conclusion you might take from such figures is that you might want to include some magic items that the ranger will find useful in the next adventure.

As a DM, you should keep a general tab on how the total wealth of the party matches up to how much wealth they should have. But beyond keeping an eye on making sure the total wealth stays within the proper range, not much else is required. Don't waste time on trying to keep an eye on every copper piece.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Keyar81 05-23-07, 01:04 PM	When monitoring player wealth, I total up all the normal gear's value as listed in the equipment chapter of the phb. Then i total up all magic items' value as listed in the dmg using the market value listed in the magic items section. Then i divide this total by 2, because any gear is only worth half price to a merchant. then i add in all monies, and compare the grand total of all that to the tables in the dmg for wealth, p51 & 54. I'm basically asking if i'm doing this correctly.
Inigo Carmine 05-23-07, 01:28 PM	You don't halve the cost of their equipment. For determining the player's wealth, you take the full value of all their stuff.
darkeness 05-23-07, 01:32 PM	You don't halve the cost of their equipment. For determining the player's wealth, you take the full value of all their stuff. I'll second that! :D
Keyar81 05-23-07, 02:39 PM	p. 168 of the phb suggests a method for fairly splitting treasure. It suggests that you total up all the monies, and half the value of the magic items/gear and split it accordingly and evenly. The example goes Jozan, Lidda, Mialee, and Tordek split a treasure of 5,000gp and a +1 heavy steel shield, the group would count the magic shield as worth 500gp, roughly half the price you would pay to buy one. With the treasure worth 5500 gp, 3 chars would recieve 1375 gp, and the other, would get the shield(valued at 500gp) plus 875. Lets assume this party for some reason has nothing that for some reason they're all naked with no assets but the treasure they just took. 3 characters now have 1375 gp they have gained. and the fourth has the shield, plus 875 gp. Now if I were to check his wealth level at this moment, He would have gained an extra 500gp worth of assets over the other char, because as you guys have stated, i use the full cost of gear when tallying wealth. However, half the value was used when determining how to split this treasure. so the shield carrier, has 875 gp+ his shield costing 1000gp. Am I missing something here? the simple fix of course would to be to use the full value when splitting treasure, otherwise a char with more magic items might pull ahead substantially from the other characters in wealth over time. Just wondering if i'm missing something, or if indeed these two sources tend to contradict each other.
Karui_Kage 05-23-07, 03:37 PM	The reason that method is suggested for splitting treasure is because of merchants. If you find 6,000 GP, and Gloves of Dex +2 (4,000), with 4 players, then you would give 2,000 GP each to 3, and let whoever wanted the Gloves of Dex +2 to have them. Yes, that player does get slightly more use out of them, but the reason they count for 2K is if no one could use them, for example. Then the player would have to sell them, and would only get 2K. It wouldn't be fair to give him a 2K value item instead, and call it even, because selling it would only net him 1K. So in terms of splitting treasure 'evenly', you treat magic items and anything that would need to be 'sold' in the future as half cost. In terms of suggested player wealth, going by the table in the DMG, treat everything as full cost. Hope that helps.
Kouk 05-23-07, 03:39 PM	Well, that is for dividing things amongst themselves. If nobody wants an item then they will of course just sell it for half. If somebody does want the item, then his share only counts as half, because that is what the party could have otherwise gotten for selling it to an NPC. This way, the other members do not actually "lose" any money they might otherwise have been able to gain, and the member that takes the item gets it for half price. The items are still worth full price to a player, they just couldn't be re-sold to an NPC for that amount. Wealth-by-level is for the purpose of the DM knowing how much the gear is worth to the players, or rather, how much they could have bought it all for if they had bought the gear new from a merchant. This way, it doesn't especially matter how they accumulated their gear - whether from you just always giving monetary rewards or from actually finding useful things on defeated enemies.
Phrennzy 05-23-07, 04:26 PM	We -kinda- use the full value, more or less. But we also only give out items if you can use them, otherwise they are sold. I've never been in a group where there has been a great deal of protest over this, since everyone pulls for each other. Besides which, wealth by character level can be a rough estimate, not an exact number,
Keyar81 05-23-07, 06:44 PM	Ya makes sense. I'm currently dm'ing a new campaign. So i thought i'd check the wealth levels between sessions, mainly because some of the characters have recently leveled and some are getting ready to. I tallied up the group as follows lvl 2 Ranger (1447 xp) = 662 gp (total of all monies and assets at full price) lvl 1 Paladin (947 xp) = 1303gp lvl 1 Druid (960xp) = 892gp lvl 2 Sorcerer (1447xp) = 1390gp lvl 2 Cleric (1147xp) = 1642gp Certainly I understand that the wealth guides in the dmg are just that, rough estimates/guidelines (of course this is true of much of the 'rules' in the game) but to me it certainly seems the ranger has much too little and the cleric and paladin have somewhat too much.
DwarvenArcher 05-23-07, 08:00 PM	Ugh. I used to give my players full value when they sold their stuff. No wonder the party was so optimised, oops. :embarrass
Keyar81 05-23-07, 08:07 PM	hehe i used to dm for ad&d 2nd edition in highschool. After several years of not playing any pnp rpg, and them coming back as a new dm for 3.5 for a group of new players who have never played a pnp rpg, i can say my brain aint what it used to be. I no longer remember things quite as sharply and easily as i did almost a decade ago. though this is improving, i still find myself forgetting to add in small numbers, like forgetting that the druid's ac goes down because she put her shield away and is now using her lightcrossbow with both hands, or occasionally forgetting to use the flat footed ac when necessary. Simply because i'm the only one that has much understanding of the rules, and the players seem to have little interest in reading even small sections of the rules, or familiarizing themselves with their skills or spells. So they're still a work in progress =p.
Kouk 05-23-07, 08:34 PM	If the ranger has much less than everyone, it may be he just never has found anything worth keeping and using, or he uses up all expendable items very quickly.
Father Dale 06-14-07, 02:40 AM	And typically, a rangers items won't cost as much as a clerics or paladin's especially at early levels. The paladin and cleric likely are wearing heavier and more expensive armors and shields, which probably represents the majority of their wealth.
Tolby 06-17-07, 08:06 PM	to the OP: Do not divide the Magic items by two. As far as dividing trease. In the groups i DM and play in what we do is hand the item to whoever it would benefit the most. then divide out the GP of it amoung the players. In this way we don't gimp the clerics when we find wand of CLW or argue who has to suck up taking the bag of holding.
BroadStreetBully 06-18-07, 03:04 PM	I personally wouldn't worry about an 800 gp wealth difference between two PC's, especially at that level. by 5th level it will all even out, and if not you should look at what kinds of treasure you're putting into the module. just make sure that everyone has a chance to find a nice item that their character can use, and balance the frequency with which that happens for the separate PC's. as long as you do that, only the pettiest of players will notice if Harry has 500 gold more than Jack.
Pathanus 06-25-07, 09:42 PM	Something like this might work for you: spreadsheet application helps for this All wealth gained totaled in a single pool using market values where applicable. Wealth gained split evenly between players. Any 'party' items, like useful wands/potions/scrolls may be subtracted out before this distribution. (I'll assume 4 players) Players use their share to purchase items from the pool at market value. When a player buys something from the pool, those funds are then distributed to the other 3 players equally. ex. Tordek uses some of his share to buy a +1 greatsword, market value of 2350 gold, the other 3 PC's each receive [2350/3] or 783.33 gp into their share Any remaining items the players don't want to keep are sold, at 50% if applicable and the final totals for each player are adjusted accordingly. Using this method makes it beneficial for characters to use items they find since they receive less actual gold for things they need to sell to merchants. This also requires player participation and common sense. Players should not horde their treasure in actual gold pieces because being well equipped helps the party.
JustinA 06-27-07, 06:05 AM	Certainly I understand that the wealth guides in the dmg are just that, rough estimates/guidelines (of course this is true of much of the 'rules' in the game) but to me it certainly seems the ranger has much too little and the cleric and paladin have somewhat too much. As a DM, I wouldn't worry too much about wealth balance within the party: The players will split up the wealth however they feel fit. About the only conclusion you might take from such figures is that you might want to include some magic items that the ranger will find useful in the next adventure. As a DM, you should keep a general tab on how the total wealth of the party matches up to how much wealth they should have. But beyond keeping an eye on making sure the total wealth stays within the proper range, not much else is required. Don't waste time on trying to keep an eye on every copper piece.