Post/Author/DateTime	Post
npilgaard 06-18-07, 07:55 PM	A question regarding a multiclass wizard/monk: Shield and Mage Armor spells each provide +4 AC. A Monk gain AC bonus if not "wearing armor, using a shield". So, can a wizard/monk get the monk AC bonus, while being under the effect of those spells (or maybe only one of them)? Since neither are armor or shield in normal sense and don't cause encumbrance etc. that seems to be the case. Otoh, they are 'armor' and 'shield', and the +8 AC bonus seems quite large, combined with the monk AC bonus (at least at low lvl - fx: a 2. lvl character can thus get AC 23 with just dex +2, wis +2) Also, what about a Ring of Force Shield. This doesn't cause any armor check penalty either, and is weightless also, but in this case it is "wielded by the wearer as if it was a heavy shield". So, since this is 'wielded', as opposed to just being 'floating' (the Shield spell) I assume that this ring cannot be combined with the Monk AC bonus? Thanks in advance Nikolaj
Salla 06-18-07, 07:57 PM	The Shield and Mage Armor spells are not counted as wearing armor, so a monk is free and clear. You do not wear or wield those particular spell effects. The Ring of Force Shield does say it's 'wielded', so does hose a monk.
Kouk 06-18-07, 08:16 PM	I'm not 100% on the Ring, but the spells definitely would work. Something to keep in mind though, the Mage Armor spell would not stack with Bracers of Armor (which is what most monks use for armor) because it is exactly the same type of bonus.
Thubby 06-18-07, 11:08 PM	i dont have my book with me, but the ring provides a shield bonus, right? if it does, it wont stack with a shield spell. (and since you wield it as a shield, it messes you up) the 2 spells wont mess you up though
Roivas 06-18-07, 11:13 PM	I think the comment is more about a 2nd level character with an AC of 26, assuming an 18 in both Dex and Wis, and saying that it isn't too conductive to game. Of course if you think of it as a character who though he can't be hit can't do the same to anything with a reasonably high AC even with weapon finesse due to a BA of 0. So sure he can't get hit but since he can't do anything it hardly matters. Or was this a question about stacking AC bonuses?
UltimateReality 06-18-07, 11:16 PM	Don't forget that unless he's doing something really funky, those spells mean he's just spent 2 rounds buffing. 2 rounds he could have been punching or kicking things. Or stopping them from prepping buffs. :P
Leilond 06-19-07, 03:05 AM	I think the comment is more about a 2nd level character with an AC of 26, assuming an 18 in both Dex and Wis, and saying that it isn't too conductive to game. Of course if you think of it as a character who though he can't be hit can't do the same to anything with a reasonably high AC even with weapon finesse due to a BA of 0. So sure he can't get hit but since he can't do anything it hardly matters. Or was this a question about stacking AC bonuses? 1st Dex and Wis at 18 at 2nd level? With a 28 point buy you cannot do it at all... and with an elf you can do it but you will have 3 stat at "8" and one at "10" 2nd Shield has very short duration, and mage armor last for 2 hours at that level... not so "uber" 3rd Mage armor do not change the touch AC I think it is perfectly legal and balanced
Lilinthra 06-19-07, 10:13 AM	The Original Poster's example with AC 22 isn't that bad considering that Shield would only last a minute and burns a standard action to activate (the Mage Armor could conceivably have already been up). That's not too bad. Also, note that many tanks are looking at AC 21 from full plate and heavy shield by 3rd level.
npilgaard 06-19-07, 11:53 AM	Thanks for all the replies. Nikolaj
Salla 06-19-07, 11:55 AM	1st Dex and Wis at 18 at 2nd level? With a 28 point buy you cannot do it at all... and with an elf you can do it but you will have 3 stat at "8" and one at "10" Annoyingly, not everybody uses point buy. Admittedly, the odds of rolling double 18s aren't good, but it can happen. And, of course, there's always cheating ... which is why I ALWAYS use point buy.
Elrond Hubbard 06-19-07, 07:21 PM	I think it is perfectly legal and balanced I agree. Also, keep in mind that this character is multi-classed as a wizard, so he's probably put some points into INT. Not to mention STR & CON, which he would also need as a combat monk. Even if he rolled well for his stats, he's got to strive for balanced stats if he's going to be effective. As a multi-classed character, he's giving up BAB and possibly monk damage as well; and he won't have many HP with d8 and d4 HD. He BETTER have a high AC, if he actually wants to tango. Plus, the short duration of Shield goes a long way towards keeping this balanced, IMHO.
Vharuck 06-20-07, 08:02 PM	Annoyingly, not everybody uses point buy. Admittedly, the odds of rolling double 18s aren't good, but it can happen. And, of course, there's always cheating ... which is why I ALWAYS use point buy. Granted, it *could* happen, but this extremely rare situation is not even close to a sensible example to judge how good something really is.
Kouk 06-20-07, 08:16 PM	With just the core rules, he is also giving up any future Monk levels if he takes another level of Wizard, so in the long run he may not be all that great considering that higher level monks will also have decent Bracers of Armor (removing the benefit of Mage Armor) and the improved bonus to AC from just being a Monk. The first or second level spells won't be of tremendous help either. Unless he is going for the Enlightened Fist from Complete Arcane at least.