Monkey grip [Archive] - Wizards Community

Monkey grip [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zankue
05-30-07, 08:43 PM A player in my group wants to get monkey grip so that he can dual wield full blades. We don't actually have the book (he's getting it off crystal keep, which I never found to be trustworthy for feats.) So I wanted to be sure of exactly how this feat works. Can he really wield a large weapon in one hand w/ it? and does he realy get no off hand penalty? thanks in advance!!

PS: I'm a player, not the DM I just think that this is the right place to post.
glacialcat
05-30-07, 08:45 PM Monkey Grip DOES NOT let you wield a weapon easier than it would be. You cannot wield a great sword, or full blade for that matter, in one hand.

Monkey Grip DOES let you wield a large longsword in one hand, or a large bastard sword in one hand.

Monkey Grip just allows you to wield a weapon of a larger size, not change the handiness of a weapon. He could use it to dual wield two large longswords, giving him the same damage as if he was wielding two greatswords, which isn't the same, but is close, to wielding two full blades.

He can also use it to dual wield large bastard swords, which would have the same damage as dual wielding full blades, but he has to spend an Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat on Bastard Swords to use them in one hand.

I don't know where he's getting the no off hand penalty thing from it, but if you used two large bastard swords you'd have a -6 penalty to both hands, unless he spent a feat on Oversized Two-Weapon fighting, which would let him fight with both with only a -4 to both.
Frugal
05-31-07, 08:38 AM Monkey Grip just allows you to wield a weapon of a larger size, not change the handiness of a weapon. He could use it to dual wield two large longswords, giving him the same damage as if he was wielding two greatswords, which isn't the same, but is close, to wielding two full blades.

He can also use it to dual wield large bastard swords, which would have the same damage as dual wielding full blades, but he has to spend an Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat on Bastard Swords to use them in one hand.

Actually, Monkey Grip doesn't work off-hand, otherwise what you said is correct.
Murrdox
05-31-07, 08:59 AM A player in my group wants to get monkey grip so that he can dual wield full blades. We don't actually have the book (he's getting it off crystal keep, which I never found to be trustworthy for feats.) So I wanted to be sure of exactly how this feat works. Can he really wield a large weapon in one hand w/ it? and does he realy get no off hand penalty? thanks in advance!!

PS: I'm a player, not the DM I just think that this is the right place to post.

I had a player try this in our game a couple years ago. I think the 3.0 version of the Monkey Grip feat let you do this. They may have changed it for 3.5

But anyways, suffice it to say that his character was excessive enough that he broke our game. He dealt so much more damage than anyone else, that other players always got bored in combat.
Xelblade
06-01-07, 06:34 PM Actually, Monkey Grip doesn't work off-hand, otherwise what you said is correct.

Does it say in the text that Monkey Grip doesn't apply to the off-hand? I didn't notice that ^^'

Btw, I'm the DM of the table. His proposed plan is:
Dual-wield 2 bastard-swords using EWP
Get the two-weapon fighting feats
Oversized two weapon fighting (treat off-hand as light)
Bracers of Something (No penalty for wielding weapons of a larger size) from MIC

Result: Damage equal to dual-wielding fullblades with a penalty of -2/-2.
claypigeons
06-01-07, 08:53 PM Btw, I'm the DM of the table. His proposed plan is:
Dual-wield 2 bastard-swords using EWP

Okay, no problems. Waste of a feat IMO, but whatever.

Get the two-weapon fighting feats

Intensive feat chain. Probably means he's a fighter.

Oversized two weapon fighting (treat off-hand as light)

Net gain of +a couple to hit for off-hand.

Bracers of Something (No penalty for wielding weapons of a larger size) from MIC

Not familiar with such an item. If I am, I don't remember.

Result: Damage equal to dual-wielding fullblades with a penalty of -2/-2.

A medium bastard sword is still only 1d10. Do the bracers actually let him treat the weapon as larger, or just make it so that there is no penalty?

Also, this character is INCREDIBLY feat intensive. One mobile enemy ruins like 6 feats. Not only is he taking the TWF chain, he's taking a few other feats just to boost a (normally) weak fighting style.
Opiate
06-03-07, 02:28 PM Some clarifications and reinforcements:

Monkey Grip specifies that you can use, "...melee weapons one size category larger than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, but the amount of effort to use the weapon does not change." Additionally, it does specify, "You cannot wield a larger weapon in your off hand, and you cannot use this feat with a double weapon."

This specifies on size category larger is all that's affected. The player in question could certainly use larger Bastard Swords with the same effort that he/she would use one meant for his/her size category. However, this would not affect any weapons intended for that character's size category.

I.E.: A Medium Fighter uses Large Bastard Swords just as he would use Medium Bastard Swords. However, Medium Bastard Swords would not change at all.

In addition to taking a -2/-4 hit for wielding two One-Handed weapons at once, the character would take a -2/-2 penalty for wielding weapons of one size category larger. This would be incredibly foolish in trade for marginally better damage.

I.E.: The Medium Fighter with Monkey Grip and two Large Bastard Swords would be at -4/-6 and increase damage from 1d10 to 2d8...a maximum bonus of 6 damage points.

As you can see, it's not worth it. Tell your player to stop watching so much anime and come back down to Earth. Unless you're going completely off the deep end, people don't go around waving ten-foot swords as if they're toothpicks and dicing everything that gets in their path.

Some constructive advice for the player...
Choose the Ranger class and take the Two-Weapon Fighting path. I have a player in my campaign that has done so. His character uses short swords and does dice everything in its path. Not only are its attack bonuses very high, but it acquired keen weapons and makes short shrift of almost every enemy. It does on occasion get hit hard due to armor restrictions, but has yet to die from its injuries.

Respect the Pu of things...trying to force something to become what it's not ultimately results in discord.
Mystic Lemur
06-04-07, 12:52 AM Seriously. People have been trying to abuse monkey grip for years, and it still isn't worth it. Back when it first came out in S&F it was 'treat a weapon as one category lighter'. It was intended so that you could use a long polearm one-handed with a large shield. It didn't take long before people were dual-wielding huge exotic weapons as Tempests (the original version) and raining bloody death on weak willed DM's.

When they changed it in 3.5, it nerfed the intended purpose (no long spears, but here's a large short spear which is most certainly not the same thing. :confused:) while causing more confusion to DM's and Players alike.
draco1119
06-04-07, 08:00 AM Bracers of Something (No penalty for wielding weapons of a larger size) from MIC
They're called Strongarm Bracers. They probably won't stack with Monkey Grip or Powerful Build (though it doesn't actually say so), so there's no point to using them AND MG. Although, if they DO stack...

Can anyone say "Frenzied Berserker wielding a Huge Greataxe"? :evillaugh
TheDanishCartoonist
06-04-07, 09:13 AM They're called Strongarm Bracers. They probably won't stack with Monkey Grip or Powerful Build (though it doesn't actually say so), so there's no point to using them AND MG. Although, if they DO stack...

Can anyone say "Frenzied Berserker wielding a Huge Greataxe"? :evillaugh

You've only spent a feat and the cost of those bracers to do less damage for the same -2 to hit than a frenzied berserker using a medium greataxe!:evillaugh

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zankue 05-30-07, 08:43 PM	A player in my group wants to get monkey grip so that he can dual wield full blades. We don't actually have the book (he's getting it off crystal keep, which I never found to be trustworthy for feats.) So I wanted to be sure of exactly how this feat works. Can he really wield a large weapon in one hand w/ it? and does he realy get no off hand penalty? thanks in advance!! PS: I'm a player, not the DM I just think that this is the right place to post.
glacialcat 05-30-07, 08:45 PM	Monkey Grip DOES NOT let you wield a weapon easier than it would be. You cannot wield a great sword, or full blade for that matter, in one hand. Monkey Grip DOES let you wield a large longsword in one hand, or a large bastard sword in one hand. Monkey Grip just allows you to wield a weapon of a larger size, not change the handiness of a weapon. He could use it to dual wield two large longswords, giving him the same damage as if he was wielding two greatswords, which isn't the same, but is close, to wielding two full blades. He can also use it to dual wield large bastard swords, which would have the same damage as dual wielding full blades, but he has to spend an Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat on Bastard Swords to use them in one hand. I don't know where he's getting the no off hand penalty thing from it, but if you used two large bastard swords you'd have a -6 penalty to both hands, unless he spent a feat on Oversized Two-Weapon fighting, which would let him fight with both with only a -4 to both.
Frugal 05-31-07, 08:38 AM	Monkey Grip just allows you to wield a weapon of a larger size, not change the handiness of a weapon. He could use it to dual wield two large longswords, giving him the same damage as if he was wielding two greatswords, which isn't the same, but is close, to wielding two full blades. He can also use it to dual wield large bastard swords, which would have the same damage as dual wielding full blades, but he has to spend an Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat on Bastard Swords to use them in one hand. Actually, Monkey Grip doesn't work off-hand, otherwise what you said is correct.
Murrdox 05-31-07, 08:59 AM	A player in my group wants to get monkey grip so that he can dual wield full blades. We don't actually have the book (he's getting it off crystal keep, which I never found to be trustworthy for feats.) So I wanted to be sure of exactly how this feat works. Can he really wield a large weapon in one hand w/ it? and does he realy get no off hand penalty? thanks in advance!! PS: I'm a player, not the DM I just think that this is the right place to post. I had a player try this in our game a couple years ago. I think the 3.0 version of the Monkey Grip feat let you do this. They may have changed it for 3.5 But anyways, suffice it to say that his character was excessive enough that he broke our game. He dealt so much more damage than anyone else, that other players always got bored in combat.
Xelblade 06-01-07, 06:34 PM	Actually, Monkey Grip doesn't work off-hand, otherwise what you said is correct. Does it say in the text that Monkey Grip doesn't apply to the off-hand? I didn't notice that ^^' Btw, I'm the DM of the table. His proposed plan is: Dual-wield 2 bastard-swords using EWP Get the two-weapon fighting feats Oversized two weapon fighting (treat off-hand as light) Bracers of Something (No penalty for wielding weapons of a larger size) from MIC Result: Damage equal to dual-wielding fullblades with a penalty of -2/-2.
claypigeons 06-01-07, 08:53 PM	Btw, I'm the DM of the table. His proposed plan is: Dual-wield 2 bastard-swords using EWP Okay, no problems. Waste of a feat IMO, but whatever. Get the two-weapon fighting feats Intensive feat chain. Probably means he's a fighter. Oversized two weapon fighting (treat off-hand as light) Net gain of +a couple to hit for off-hand. Bracers of Something (No penalty for wielding weapons of a larger size) from MIC Not familiar with such an item. If I am, I don't remember. Result: Damage equal to dual-wielding fullblades with a penalty of -2/-2. A medium bastard sword is still only 1d10. Do the bracers actually let him treat the weapon as larger, or just make it so that there is no penalty? Also, this character is INCREDIBLY feat intensive. One mobile enemy ruins like 6 feats. Not only is he taking the TWF chain, he's taking a few other feats just to boost a (normally) weak fighting style.
Opiate 06-03-07, 02:28 PM	Some clarifications and reinforcements: Monkey Grip specifies that you can use, "...melee weapons one size category larger than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, but the amount of effort to use the weapon does not change." Additionally, it does specify, "You cannot wield a larger weapon in your off hand, and you cannot use this feat with a double weapon." This specifies on size category larger is all that's affected. The player in question could certainly use larger Bastard Swords with the same effort that he/she would use one meant for his/her size category. However, this would not affect any weapons intended for that character's size category. I.E.: A Medium Fighter uses Large Bastard Swords just as he would use Medium Bastard Swords. However, Medium Bastard Swords would not change at all. In addition to taking a -2/-4 hit for wielding two One-Handed weapons at once, the character would take a -2/-2 penalty for wielding weapons of one size category larger. This would be incredibly foolish in trade for marginally better damage. I.E.: The Medium Fighter with Monkey Grip and two Large Bastard Swords would be at -4/-6 and increase damage from 1d10 to 2d8...a maximum bonus of 6 damage points. As you can see, it's not worth it. Tell your player to stop watching so much anime and come back down to Earth. Unless you're going completely off the deep end, people don't go around waving ten-foot swords as if they're toothpicks and dicing everything that gets in their path. Some constructive advice for the player... Choose the Ranger class and take the Two-Weapon Fighting path. I have a player in my campaign that has done so. His character uses short swords and does dice everything in its path. Not only are its attack bonuses very high, but it acquired keen weapons and makes short shrift of almost every enemy. It does on occasion get hit hard due to armor restrictions, but has yet to die from its injuries. Respect the Pu of things...trying to force something to become what it's not ultimately results in discord.
Mystic Lemur 06-04-07, 12:52 AM	Seriously. People have been trying to abuse monkey grip for years, and it still isn't worth it. Back when it first came out in S&F it was 'treat a weapon as one category lighter'. It was intended so that you could use a long polearm one-handed with a large shield. It didn't take long before people were dual-wielding huge exotic weapons as Tempests (the original version) and raining bloody death on weak willed DM's. When they changed it in 3.5, it nerfed the intended purpose (no long spears, but here's a large short spear which is most certainly not the same thing. :confused:) while causing more confusion to DM's and Players alike.
draco1119 06-04-07, 08:00 AM	Bracers of Something (No penalty for wielding weapons of a larger size) from MIC They're called Strongarm Bracers. They probably won't stack with Monkey Grip or Powerful Build (though it doesn't actually say so), so there's no point to using them AND MG. Although, if they DO stack... Can anyone say "Frenzied Berserker wielding a Huge Greataxe"? :evillaugh
TheDanishCartoonist 06-04-07, 09:13 AM	They're called Strongarm Bracers. They probably won't stack with Monkey Grip or Powerful Build (though it doesn't actually say so), so there's no point to using them AND MG. Although, if they DO stack... Can anyone say "Frenzied Berserker wielding a Huge Greataxe"? :evillaugh You've only spent a feat and the cost of those bracers to do less damage for the same -2 to hit than a frenzied berserker using a medium greataxe!:evillaugh