Monks and Gauntlets [Archive] - Wizards Community

Monks and Gauntlets [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cuindless
11-24-07, 10:37 AM Simple question: How do you resolve a monk wearing gauntlets? Does the monk to normal unarmed damage, monk damage or do the damages stack?
CryoSilver
11-24-07, 12:34 PM He does gauntlet damage. Monks should only use gauntlets when they have magical ones with special abilties on them.
Marcus Majarra
11-24-07, 12:39 PM Any character deals unarmed damage as lethal damage with gauntlets. In essence, since the monk already has the option of dealing lethal damage with his unarmed strikes, this provides little benefit. However, any enhancements to the gauntlets he could enjoy, when making unarmed strikes with his fists.
Cuindless
11-24-07, 01:19 PM Any character deals unarmed damage as lethal damage with gauntlets. In essence, since the monk already has the option of dealing lethal damage with his unarmed strikes, this provides little benefit. However, any enhancements to the gauntlets he could enjoy, when making unarmed strikes with his fists.

So you think that the gauntlets should deal monk damage not the 1d4 listed in the PHB?

This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.

What about spiked gauntlets?

An attack with a spiked gauntlet is considered an armed attack.

Here's the situation: I have a player joining a 12th level group. He wants to play a 12th level monk. I gave him standard starting gold for his level and told him that he couldn't purchase any single item worth more than 50% of his total wealth. He purchased a pair of Thundering Spike Gauntlets +1. I am perfectly willing to allow them to do unarmed monk damage and sonic damage. He thinks the gauntlets, being spiked and therefore extra, should deal damage separately from the monk unarmed strike. I think he shouldn't have it both ways, either he does one damage or the other.

Heck, I think that since spiked gauntlets aren't listed on the monk weapon proficiencies, I'm actually within my rights to deny him monk damage, flurry of blows and apply a -4 penalty for non-proficiency, but I'm not a butthead...
Mindolin
11-24-07, 01:50 PM My opinion on this is that a Monk would be unable to properly use the spiked gauntlets, as they are another weapon by the rules of D&D. The Gauntlets, however, are unarmed strikes that deal lethal damage, and so should be allowed, with full Monk damage, since the 1d3 it's listed as is just shorthand for what a character normally deals.
Marcus Majarra
11-24-07, 02:46 PM Gauntlets and spiked gauntlets are two separate things. You should read up the description for the gauntlet:

"This metal glove protects your hands and lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. [...]"

Spiked gauntlets offer no reference whatsoever to unarmed strikes, so they don't enhance the monk's unarmed strike in any way. Thus, when attacking with spiked gauntlets is like attacking with any other light melee weapon, except you cannot be disarmed of them. Attacking with gauntlets, however, is like making unarmed strikes, except that they ALWAYS deal lethal damage.
calronmoonflower
11-24-07, 03:18 PM Don't forget that monks are not proficient with gauntlets.

From the Main FAQ
Can a monk get her unarmed strike enhanced as a
magic weapon?
No. Even a magic gauntlet or spiked gauntlet isn’t the ideal
answer, since these aren’t listed as special monk weapons (and
therefore aren’t as versatile as unarmed strikes).
The amulet of mighty fists (Dungeon Master’s Guide, 246)
grants the wearer an enhancement bonus on unarmed and
natural weapon attacks, which would include the monk’s
unarmed strike.

I think they contradicted themselves here.
Mindolin
11-24-07, 06:23 PM Don't forget that monks are not proficient with gauntlets.

It is a house rule, but I would say that they are proficient, as the gauntlet says that it is used as an unarmed strike, except for dealing lethal damage.
CeilingNinja
11-24-07, 07:00 PM I agree with the fact that a normal gauntlet - enchanted - will give the benefits of the enchantment to the monk's attacks. As it doesn't add any extra damage, only makes attacks lethal, the attack should be used with monk attacks.

Otherwise, monks trail behind every other fighting class forever, unable to deal more damage than the enhanced damage from Mighty Fists.
Baratus114
11-24-07, 07:57 PM Well, a monk's unarmed damage only matters when the monk is UNARMED. Normal Gauntlets do nothing other than make unarmed attacks do lethal damage rather than non-lethal damage. They do not add to the damage, and as was said before the d3 damage given in the PHB is just what most characters unarmed strikes would be, and so does not apply to a monk at all.

Spiked gaunlets, however, do have their own damage because they are treated as being normal simple weapons that are worn rather than held. The idea is that they are similar to a punching dagger, just with more points.

So, as to whether or not the monk in question could do weapon damage and unarmed damage, I say the answer is no, because a character, the monk, is not considered unarmed when wearing spiked gauntlets.

I suppose the monk could do either or, depending upon what part of the hand(gauntlet) he strikes with. A palm strike would use the monk's unarmed strike damage and a punch with the spikes would use the gauntlet's damage, but the two would not stack.

Additionaly, an atack with the spiked gauntlets could not be included in a "Flurry of Blows" because a spiked gauntlet is not listed as a special monk weapon.

Also, any enhancements on the spiked gauntlets would apply only to attacks made with the spikes of the gauntlets, just like a flaming longsword does not burn something that is punched with the hand carrying the sword.
mvincent
11-26-07, 06:55 PM From the Main FAQ
I think they contradicted themselves here.The 3.5 FAQ previously had 3 separate (and contradictory) answers to this issue, but has since removed two of them (still leaving the question unanswered).

Best to ask your DM, or better yet, avoid the whole issue and just not do it.

Instead, just enhance your unarmed strike with a permanent Greater magic fang +5 (i.e. caster level 20) for about 9k gp. As a bonus, dispel magic cannot dispel a CL 20 spell (the DC is too high). If a 20th level caster cannot be located, try for a lower level one that has his Caster Level temporarily augmented using a bead of karma, candle of invocation, orange ioun stone, and/or a ring of spell-storing loaded with death knell.
Ikyotojin
11-26-07, 07:19 PM "proficient" with a gauntlet

Ok, this goes beyond rules lawyering and into the realm of "WAAAHHH???"

You wear gauntlets no differently than gloves! They are GLOVES of leather and padding with metal plates on them. Someone who learns to punch effectively with their bare hands would have zero trouble punching with gloves on.

Step back and think. Really. Rules in D&D are supposed to guidelines. If something seriously makes zero sense, then why debate it? Magic in the game is supposed to be far out and pulled from imagination, but punching someone with a glove on or off?

:rolleyes:
mvincent
11-26-07, 07:35 PM Someone who learns to punch effectively with their bare hands would have zero trouble punching with gloves on.Well... technically, monks don't have proficiency with unarmed strikes either ;)

(i.e. unarmed strike is a simple weapon, which monks are not listed as being proficient with)
Ikyotojin
11-26-07, 08:12 PM Which is something I laughed like mad about when I first read up on 3e monks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cuindless 11-24-07, 10:37 AM	Simple question: How do you resolve a monk wearing gauntlets? Does the monk to normal unarmed damage, monk damage or do the damages stack?
CryoSilver 11-24-07, 12:34 PM	He does gauntlet damage. Monks should only use gauntlets when they have magical ones with special abilties on them.
Marcus Majarra 11-24-07, 12:39 PM	Any character deals unarmed damage as lethal damage with gauntlets. In essence, since the monk already has the option of dealing lethal damage with his unarmed strikes, this provides little benefit. However, any enhancements to the gauntlets he could enjoy, when making unarmed strikes with his fists.
Cuindless 11-24-07, 01:19 PM	Any character deals unarmed damage as lethal damage with gauntlets. In essence, since the monk already has the option of dealing lethal damage with his unarmed strikes, this provides little benefit. However, any enhancements to the gauntlets he could enjoy, when making unarmed strikes with his fists. So you think that the gauntlets should deal monk damage not the 1d4 listed in the PHB? This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets. What about spiked gauntlets? An attack with a spiked gauntlet is considered an armed attack. Here's the situation: I have a player joining a 12th level group. He wants to play a 12th level monk. I gave him standard starting gold for his level and told him that he couldn't purchase any single item worth more than 50% of his total wealth. He purchased a pair of Thundering Spike Gauntlets +1. I am perfectly willing to allow them to do unarmed monk damage and sonic damage. He thinks the gauntlets, being spiked and therefore extra, should deal damage separately from the monk unarmed strike. I think he shouldn't have it both ways, either he does one damage or the other. Heck, I think that since spiked gauntlets aren't listed on the monk weapon proficiencies, I'm actually within my rights to deny him monk damage, flurry of blows and apply a -4 penalty for non-proficiency, but I'm not a butthead...
Mindolin 11-24-07, 01:50 PM	My opinion on this is that a Monk would be unable to properly use the spiked gauntlets, as they are another weapon by the rules of D&D. The Gauntlets, however, are unarmed strikes that deal lethal damage, and so should be allowed, with full Monk damage, since the 1d3 it's listed as is just shorthand for what a character normally deals.
Marcus Majarra 11-24-07, 02:46 PM	Gauntlets and spiked gauntlets are two separate things. You should read up the description for the gauntlet: "This metal glove protects your hands and lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. [...]" Spiked gauntlets offer no reference whatsoever to unarmed strikes, so they don't enhance the monk's unarmed strike in any way. Thus, when attacking with spiked gauntlets is like attacking with any other light melee weapon, except you cannot be disarmed of them. Attacking with gauntlets, however, is like making unarmed strikes, except that they ALWAYS deal lethal damage.
calronmoonflower 11-24-07, 03:18 PM	Don't forget that monks are not proficient with gauntlets. From the Main FAQ Can a monk get her unarmed strike enhanced as a magic weapon? No. Even a magic gauntlet or spiked gauntlet isn’t the ideal answer, since these aren’t listed as special monk weapons (and therefore aren’t as versatile as unarmed strikes). The amulet of mighty fists (Dungeon Master’s Guide, 246) grants the wearer an enhancement bonus on unarmed and natural weapon attacks, which would include the monk’s unarmed strike. I think they contradicted themselves here.
Mindolin 11-24-07, 06:23 PM	Don't forget that monks are not proficient with gauntlets. It is a house rule, but I would say that they are proficient, as the gauntlet says that it is used as an unarmed strike, except for dealing lethal damage.
CeilingNinja 11-24-07, 07:00 PM	I agree with the fact that a normal gauntlet - enchanted - will give the benefits of the enchantment to the monk's attacks. As it doesn't add any extra damage, only makes attacks lethal, the attack should be used with monk attacks. Otherwise, monks trail behind every other fighting class forever, unable to deal more damage than the enhanced damage from Mighty Fists.
Baratus114 11-24-07, 07:57 PM	Well, a monk's unarmed damage only matters when the monk is UNARMED. Normal Gauntlets do nothing other than make unarmed attacks do lethal damage rather than non-lethal damage. They do not add to the damage, and as was said before the d3 damage given in the PHB is just what most characters unarmed strikes would be, and so does not apply to a monk at all. Spiked gaunlets, however, do have their own damage because they are treated as being normal simple weapons that are worn rather than held. The idea is that they are similar to a punching dagger, just with more points. So, as to whether or not the monk in question could do weapon damage and unarmed damage, I say the answer is no, because a character, the monk, is not considered unarmed when wearing spiked gauntlets. I suppose the monk could do either or, depending upon what part of the hand(gauntlet) he strikes with. A palm strike would use the monk's unarmed strike damage and a punch with the spikes would use the gauntlet's damage, but the two would not stack. Additionaly, an atack with the spiked gauntlets could not be included in a "Flurry of Blows" because a spiked gauntlet is not listed as a special monk weapon. Also, any enhancements on the spiked gauntlets would apply only to attacks made with the spikes of the gauntlets, just like a flaming longsword does not burn something that is punched with the hand carrying the sword.
mvincent 11-26-07, 06:55 PM	From the Main FAQ I think they contradicted themselves here.The 3.5 FAQ previously had 3 separate (and contradictory) answers to this issue, but has since removed two of them (still leaving the question unanswered). Best to ask your DM, or better yet, avoid the whole issue and just not do it. Instead, just enhance your unarmed strike with a permanent Greater magic fang +5 (i.e. caster level 20) for about 9k gp. As a bonus, dispel magic cannot dispel a CL 20 spell (the DC is too high). If a 20th level caster cannot be located, try for a lower level one that has his Caster Level temporarily augmented using a bead of karma, candle of invocation, orange ioun stone, and/or a ring of spell-storing loaded with death knell.
Ikyotojin 11-26-07, 07:19 PM	"proficient" with a gauntlet Ok, this goes beyond rules lawyering and into the realm of "WAAAHHH???" You wear gauntlets no differently than gloves! They are GLOVES of leather and padding with metal plates on them. Someone who learns to punch effectively with their bare hands would have zero trouble punching with gloves on. Step back and think. Really. Rules in D&D are supposed to guidelines. If something seriously makes zero sense, then why debate it? Magic in the game is supposed to be far out and pulled from imagination, but punching someone with a glove on or off? :rolleyes:
mvincent 11-26-07, 07:35 PM	Someone who learns to punch effectively with their bare hands would have zero trouble punching with gloves on.Well... technically, monks don't have proficiency with unarmed strikes either ;) (i.e. unarmed strike is a simple weapon, which monks are not listed as being proficient with)
Ikyotojin 11-26-07, 08:12 PM	Which is something I laughed like mad about when I first read up on 3e monks.