Monster Advancement Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Monster Advancement Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cobra1117
09-01-07, 02:23 PM All,

When advancing a monster by character levels, does it use the Epic-Level attack and save bonus structure when it hits ECL 20?

For example, I'm currently leveling the Chaturan King (Dragon 358). I'm going from a 15 HD creature to a Duskblade 10 creature, meaning it goes from 15 HD to 25 HD. Does it get 5 levels of normal class benefits, then 5 of epic-level benefits?

Thanks!
runestar
09-01-07, 10:42 PM It should start using epic progression rules when the sum of its racial HD and class lvs exceed 20. LA/ECL should not factor into this calculation at all.

This is not without its problems (such as cloud giants never getting that 4th attack), but it seems to be the method prescribed by the ELH.
Talisman
09-02-07, 09:24 PM Actually, racial HD ignore the epic rules to a certain extent. A creature gains its standard BAB and save bonuses from racial HD above 20th, but it can never have more than 4 iterative attacks (thus, a weapon-using outsider with 50 HD has a BAB of +50, but its attacks are +50/+45/+40/+35).

Class-based HD follow the normal rules for epic progression, as far as BAB and save bonuses.
runestar
09-02-07, 09:59 PM Racial HD: never use epic rules.

Racial HD + class lvs = use epic rules when sum exceeds 20. For example, an astral deva (12 outsider HD) starts using epic bab/saves progression when it takes its 9th class lv.

Class lvs = use epic rules when sum of class lvs exceeds 20.:)
Cobra1117
09-03-07, 04:07 PM Racial HD: never use epic rules.

Racial HD + class lvs = use epic rules when sum exceeds 20. For example, an astral deva (12 outsider HD) starts using epic bab/saves progression when it takes its 9th class lv.

Class lvs = use epic rules when sum of class lvs exceeds 20.:)

Bah... this is what I figured, but I was hoping it wasn't the case. lol. Guess I have some changes to make! :-) Many thanks all!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cobra1117 09-01-07, 02:23 PM	All, When advancing a monster by character levels, does it use the Epic-Level attack and save bonus structure when it hits ECL 20? For example, I'm currently leveling the Chaturan King (Dragon 358). I'm going from a 15 HD creature to a Duskblade 10 creature, meaning it goes from 15 HD to 25 HD. Does it get 5 levels of normal class benefits, then 5 of epic-level benefits? Thanks!
runestar 09-01-07, 10:42 PM	It should start using epic progression rules when the sum of its racial HD and class lvs exceed 20. LA/ECL should not factor into this calculation at all. This is not without its problems (such as cloud giants never getting that 4th attack), but it seems to be the method prescribed by the ELH.
Talisman 09-02-07, 09:24 PM	Actually, racial HD ignore the epic rules to a certain extent. A creature gains its standard BAB and save bonuses from racial HD above 20th, but it can never have more than 4 iterative attacks (thus, a weapon-using outsider with 50 HD has a BAB of +50, but its attacks are +50/+45/+40/+35). Class-based HD follow the normal rules for epic progression, as far as BAB and save bonuses.
runestar 09-02-07, 09:59 PM	Racial HD: never use epic rules. Racial HD + class lvs = use epic rules when sum exceeds 20. For example, an astral deva (12 outsider HD) starts using epic bab/saves progression when it takes its 9th class lv. Class lvs = use epic rules when sum of class lvs exceeds 20.:)
Cobra1117 09-03-07, 04:07 PM	Racial HD: never use epic rules. Racial HD + class lvs = use epic rules when sum exceeds 20. For example, an astral deva (12 outsider HD) starts using epic bab/saves progression when it takes its 9th class lv. Class lvs = use epic rules when sum of class lvs exceeds 20.:) Bah... this is what I figured, but I was hoping it wasn't the case. lol. Guess I have some changes to make! :-) Many thanks all!