Monstrous Monks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Monstrous Monks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lilinthra
04-17-08, 09:58 AM I'm creating an encounter with a monster that has four levels of monk. The FAQ was pretty helpful, but want to confirm that I have the attack progressions correct.

For the sake of example, say it's a Large creature X with total BAB +12, Str 28 (so an attack would start at +20 without modifiers other than size), and the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

X has a longsword and light crossbow. If X does a full attack with the sword and an off-hand attack with an unarmed strike, it would look like this?

Longsword +18/+13/+8 (2d6+9/19-20) and Unarmed Strike +18 (2d6+4)

Also, if making either a full attack with the sword or a flurry of blows, could the TWF rules be used to take a shot with the crossbow as well (giving all rolls a -4 penalty since it's not a light weapon, on top of the one-handed firing penalty for the crossbow)? Not saying a full attack that uses all three items, just adding a ranged shot to an otherwise "normal" full attack.
Eerongal
04-17-08, 12:37 PM Given the information you gave, your numbers looks correct. Also, you can two weapon fight with crossbows, HOWEVER, you need two hands free to reload a crossbow. Also, heavy and light crossbows have a -4 and -2 penalty respectively when being shot 1 handed. Also note, if you monster has natural weapons, you can make an attack with every natural weapon you have as a secondary after your normal BAB attacks with a -5 to all natural weapons. For example, if the character in question two weapons fights with sword in one hand, and unarmed strike in another, and he has bite and claw attacks, he can make secondary attacks after his TWF full attack with his bite and 1 claw (because the sword is in the other hand, stopping you from using that claw) at -5, so both made at +13. Hope that helps!
Lilinthra
04-17-08, 01:32 PM Given the information you gave, your numbers looks correct. Also, you can two weapon fight with crossbows, HOWEVER, you need two hands free to reload a crossbow. Also, heavy and light crossbows have a -4 and -2 penalty respectively when being shot 1 handed.
Yep, I was aware of the one-handed firing penalty. I doubt the "TWFing a Crossbow" situation will even occur, but wanted to be thorough.

No natural weapons so that wouldn't be a concern.
Eerongal
04-17-08, 02:07 PM Yep, I was aware of the one-handed firing penalty. I doubt the "TWFing a Crossbow" situation will even occur, but wanted to be thorough.

No natural weapons so that wouldn't be a concern.

All righty, just wanted to make sure you were aware of everything currently in effect. Sounds to me like you're good to go!
Lilinthra
04-17-08, 02:50 PM And since I didn't say it before, thanks for responding. :)
Wih
04-17-08, 08:15 PM I'm creating an encounter with a monster that has four levels of monk. The FAQ was pretty helpful, but want to confirm that I have the attack progressions correct.

For the sake of example, say it's a Large creature X with total BAB +12, Str 28 (so an attack would start at +20 without modifiers other than size), and the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

X has a longsword and light crossbow. If X does a full attack with the sword and an off-hand attack with an unarmed strike, it would look like this?

Longsword +18/+13/+8 (2d6+9/19-20) and Unarmed Strike +18 (2d6+4)

Also, if making either a full attack with the sword or a flurry of blows, could the TWF rules be used to take a shot with the crossbow as well (giving all rolls a -4 penalty since it's not a light weapon, on top of the one-handed firing penalty for the crossbow)? Not saying a full attack that uses all three items, just adding a ranged shot to an otherwise "normal" full attack.

Large creatures take a -1 to attack rolls.

Remember that Monks do not need to have their hands free to use their unarmed strike - the Large Creature can use a two handed weapon and unarm strike at the same time. This means it'll get STR*1.5 to damage with the Longsword. Also, a Monk's Unarmed Strike is never considered an off-hand weapon for damage purposes, so it retains STR to damage, instead of STR*0.5.
Keep in mind that you can only flurry with specific weapons, and unless you have a special ability from a feat or class, Crossbow and Longsword are neither of those, so you'd need to remove the Unarmed Strike at +18 from the full attack sequence. Secondly, Flurry incurs a -2 penalty to your attack rolls if you're a 4th level monk, as does using TWF with a light weapon in your off-hand.
Also, in order to load a crossbow you need a hand free. If you're to the point where you have no adjacent enemies and a crossbow you need to load, you could drop your Longsword as a free action and load your crossbow with your now free hand.
And lastly, you are free to interchange what weapons you're using in a full attack. If you were weilding a Longsword, Shortsword and were a Monk with a BAB of +11, then you could attack with all three - one attack each.

In the situation of Large Creature X, he could, with TWF and Flurry, do the following:
+15/+15/+15/+10/+5 (Unarmed Strike 2d6+9)
If Large Creature X wanted to instead use his Longsword, he would lose one of the attacks from his full BAB as he would not be able to flurry (this would remove the -2 flurry penalty). However, he could hold the Longsword in two hands, getting STR*1.5 to damage with it, and gaining a critical threat of 19-20, and still use the Unarmed Strike as the light weapon for TWF, getting:
+17/+12/+7 (Longsword 2d6+13), +17 (Unarmed Strike 2d6+9).
tos_shai_hulud
04-22-08, 12:31 AM Large creatures take a -1 to attack rolls.

Remember that Monks do not need to have their hands free to use their unarmed strike - the Large Creature can use a two handed weapon and unarm strike at the same time. This means it'll get STR*1.5 to damage with the Longsword. Also, a Monk's Unarmed Strike is never considered an off-hand weapon for damage purposes, so it retains STR to damage, instead of STR*0.5.

This was discussed in the FAQ. If the monk uses two-weapon fighting, his unarmed strike does suffer the 0.5 strength penalty for off-hand. It is only during the flurry of blows that it does not suffer 0.5 strength. Of course, this was not discussed in the errata, so it is up to the DM which way he wants to treat it, but it makes more sense the way the FAQ describes it.
Wih
04-22-08, 08:10 PM This was discussed in the FAQ. If the monk uses two-weapon fighting, his unarmed strike does suffer the 0.5 strength penalty for off-hand. It is only during the flurry of blows that it does not suffer 0.5 strength. Of course, this was not discussed in the errata, so it is up to the DM which way he wants to treat it, but it makes more sense the way the FAQ describes it.

That specific part of the FAQ has been changed several times. WotC can't make up their mind how Monks/TWF/Gauntlets/Flurry works, and it shows if you've read all the previous version of the FAQ. Safest way is to leave it up to your GM.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lilinthra 04-17-08, 09:58 AM	I'm creating an encounter with a monster that has four levels of monk. The FAQ was pretty helpful, but want to confirm that I have the attack progressions correct. For the sake of example, say it's a Large creature X with total BAB +12, Str 28 (so an attack would start at +20 without modifiers other than size), and the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. X has a longsword and light crossbow. If X does a full attack with the sword and an off-hand attack with an unarmed strike, it would look like this? Longsword +18/+13/+8 (2d6+9/19-20) and Unarmed Strike +18 (2d6+4) Also, if making either a full attack with the sword or a flurry of blows, could the TWF rules be used to take a shot with the crossbow as well (giving all rolls a -4 penalty since it's not a light weapon, on top of the one-handed firing penalty for the crossbow)? Not saying a full attack that uses all three items, just adding a ranged shot to an otherwise "normal" full attack.
Eerongal 04-17-08, 12:37 PM	Given the information you gave, your numbers looks correct. Also, you can two weapon fight with crossbows, HOWEVER, you need two hands free to reload a crossbow. Also, heavy and light crossbows have a -4 and -2 penalty respectively when being shot 1 handed. Also note, if you monster has natural weapons, you can make an attack with every natural weapon you have as a secondary after your normal BAB attacks with a -5 to all natural weapons. For example, if the character in question two weapons fights with sword in one hand, and unarmed strike in another, and he has bite and claw attacks, he can make secondary attacks after his TWF full attack with his bite and 1 claw (because the sword is in the other hand, stopping you from using that claw) at -5, so both made at +13. Hope that helps!
Lilinthra 04-17-08, 01:32 PM	Given the information you gave, your numbers looks correct. Also, you can two weapon fight with crossbows, HOWEVER, you need two hands free to reload a crossbow. Also, heavy and light crossbows have a -4 and -2 penalty respectively when being shot 1 handed. Yep, I was aware of the one-handed firing penalty. I doubt the "TWFing a Crossbow" situation will even occur, but wanted to be thorough. No natural weapons so that wouldn't be a concern.
Eerongal 04-17-08, 02:07 PM	Yep, I was aware of the one-handed firing penalty. I doubt the "TWFing a Crossbow" situation will even occur, but wanted to be thorough. No natural weapons so that wouldn't be a concern. All righty, just wanted to make sure you were aware of everything currently in effect. Sounds to me like you're good to go!
Lilinthra 04-17-08, 02:50 PM	And since I didn't say it before, thanks for responding. :)
Wih 04-17-08, 08:15 PM	I'm creating an encounter with a monster that has four levels of monk. The FAQ was pretty helpful, but want to confirm that I have the attack progressions correct. For the sake of example, say it's a Large creature X with total BAB +12, Str 28 (so an attack would start at +20 without modifiers other than size), and the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. X has a longsword and light crossbow. If X does a full attack with the sword and an off-hand attack with an unarmed strike, it would look like this? Longsword +18/+13/+8 (2d6+9/19-20) and Unarmed Strike +18 (2d6+4) Also, if making either a full attack with the sword or a flurry of blows, could the TWF rules be used to take a shot with the crossbow as well (giving all rolls a -4 penalty since it's not a light weapon, on top of the one-handed firing penalty for the crossbow)? Not saying a full attack that uses all three items, just adding a ranged shot to an otherwise "normal" full attack. Large creatures take a -1 to attack rolls. Remember that Monks do not need to have their hands free to use their unarmed strike - the Large Creature can use a two handed weapon and unarm strike at the same time. This means it'll get STR1.5 to damage with the Longsword. Also, a Monk's Unarmed Strike is never considered an off-hand weapon for damage purposes, so it retains STR to damage, instead of STR0.5. Keep in mind that you can only flurry with specific weapons, and unless you have a special ability from a feat or class, Crossbow and Longsword are neither of those, so you'd need to remove the Unarmed Strike at +18 from the full attack sequence. Secondly, Flurry incurs a -2 penalty to your attack rolls if you're a 4th level monk, as does using TWF with a light weapon in your off-hand. Also, in order to load a crossbow you need a hand free. If you're to the point where you have no adjacent enemies and a crossbow you need to load, you could drop your Longsword as a free action and load your crossbow with your now free hand. And lastly, you are free to interchange what weapons you're using in a full attack. If you were weilding a Longsword, Shortsword and were a Monk with a BAB of +11, then you could attack with all three - one attack each. In the situation of Large Creature X, he could, with TWF and Flurry, do the following: +15/+15/+15/+10/+5 (Unarmed Strike 2d6+9) If Large Creature X wanted to instead use his Longsword, he would lose one of the attacks from his full BAB as he would not be able to flurry (this would remove the -2 flurry penalty). However, he could hold the Longsword in two hands, getting STR*1.5 to damage with it, and gaining a critical threat of 19-20, and still use the Unarmed Strike as the light weapon for TWF, getting: +17/+12/+7 (Longsword 2d6+13), +17 (Unarmed Strike 2d6+9).
tos_shai_hulud 04-22-08, 12:31 AM	Large creatures take a -1 to attack rolls. Remember that Monks do not need to have their hands free to use their unarmed strike - the Large Creature can use a two handed weapon and unarm strike at the same time. This means it'll get STR1.5 to damage with the Longsword. Also, a Monk's Unarmed Strike is never considered an off-hand weapon for damage purposes, so it retains STR to damage, instead of STR0.5. This was discussed in the FAQ. If the monk uses two-weapon fighting, his unarmed strike does suffer the 0.5 strength penalty for off-hand. It is only during the flurry of blows that it does not suffer 0.5 strength. Of course, this was not discussed in the errata, so it is up to the DM which way he wants to treat it, but it makes more sense the way the FAQ describes it.
Wih 04-22-08, 08:10 PM	This was discussed in the FAQ. If the monk uses two-weapon fighting, his unarmed strike does suffer the 0.5 strength penalty for off-hand. It is only during the flurry of blows that it does not suffer 0.5 strength. Of course, this was not discussed in the errata, so it is up to the DM which way he wants to treat it, but it makes more sense the way the FAQ describes it. That specific part of the FAQ has been changed several times. WotC can't make up their mind how Monks/TWF/Gauntlets/Flurry works, and it shows if you've read all the previous version of the FAQ. Safest way is to leave it up to your GM.