NPC classes and CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

NPC classes and CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ashanti
05-14-07, 12:00 PM Am I right in thinking that the npc warrior class is counted as 1/2 CR?

So a 8th level human warrior is CR4? I'm sure it is but I can't find where I read it.

Am I wrong?
Marcus Majarra
05-14-07, 12:08 PM No, NPC classes count as 1 level less, not half. Only non-associated class levels for monsters with racial HD count as 1/2 CR (up to the monster's racial HD, after which each non-associated class level is worth 1 CR).
Inigo Carmine
05-14-07, 03:45 PM No, NPC classes count as 1 level less, not half. Only non-associated class levels for monsters with racial HD count as 1/2 CR (up to the monster's racial HD, after which each non-associated class level is worth 1 CR).

So lv8 warrior would be CR 7.

What you might be getting confused about is a lv1 Warrior is a 1/2 CR. This is because in CR math, 1 less is 1/2, not 0.
Marcus Majarra
05-14-07, 04:54 PM What I stated was correct. For monsters with racial HD, non-associated class levels (including NPC class levels) count as 1/2 CR each until the number of non-associated class levels equals the racial HD of the creature.

For example, a 4 HD ogre is CR 3. A 2nd-level ogre expert is CR 4. A 4th-level ogre expert is CR 5. A 6th-level ogre expert is CR 7.
Inigo Carmine
05-14-07, 05:54 PM What I stated was correct.

I wasn't disagreeing, though a quick reread tells me it could be mistaken for that. I was using your post, and then further clarifying. The target audience of my post was for Ashanti, not you (Marcus).

Sorry :):)
Marcus Majarra
05-14-07, 07:21 PM It's alright. I had assumed you were replying to my post since it was my post that you quoted.
runestar
05-14-07, 11:14 PM While Marcus Majarra is correct on this, it does seem that cr for npc classes breaks down past mid lv and would need some revision.

The earlier example suggests that a warrior8 is cr7. While this is strictly correct by the stipulated guidelines, it does not make much sense when you start comparing it to other cr7 monsters in the MM, such as the hill giant(which is statistically superior in every aspect). In this case, cr4 or 5 seems more apt.
Ashanti
05-15-07, 07:55 AM Thanks all!

But I think I may still count them as half. Seems more in tune with the rest of the wonky CR system.
Epicweaver
05-15-07, 11:59 AM Thanks all!

But I think I may still count them as half. Seems more in tune with the rest of the wonky CR system.Half would probably work better most of the time (at higher levels a War20 will really own a ECL10 group).

As is currently slated... I'd rather fight an Adept20 over a Wizard19 any day of the week.... Hell, I'd probably rather fight an Adept20/Commoner20 rather then a Wizard19.

I do think after the first few levels the CR system is really bad for non-heroic NPCs... A Commoner 10? A Commoner 20? Jeez... What's the point of even building non-classed NPCs of such a high level?

Yeah yeah yeah realists... I'll take my ball and go home... =(

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ashanti 05-14-07, 12:00 PM	Am I right in thinking that the npc warrior class is counted as 1/2 CR? So a 8th level human warrior is CR4? I'm sure it is but I can't find where I read it. Am I wrong?
Marcus Majarra 05-14-07, 12:08 PM	No, NPC classes count as 1 level less, not half. Only non-associated class levels for monsters with racial HD count as 1/2 CR (up to the monster's racial HD, after which each non-associated class level is worth 1 CR).
Inigo Carmine 05-14-07, 03:45 PM	No, NPC classes count as 1 level less, not half. Only non-associated class levels for monsters with racial HD count as 1/2 CR (up to the monster's racial HD, after which each non-associated class level is worth 1 CR). So lv8 warrior would be CR 7. What you might be getting confused about is a lv1 Warrior is a 1/2 CR. This is because in CR math, 1 less is 1/2, not 0.
Marcus Majarra 05-14-07, 04:54 PM	What I stated was correct. For monsters with racial HD, non-associated class levels (including NPC class levels) count as 1/2 CR each until the number of non-associated class levels equals the racial HD of the creature. For example, a 4 HD ogre is CR 3. A 2nd-level ogre expert is CR 4. A 4th-level ogre expert is CR 5. A 6th-level ogre expert is CR 7.
Inigo Carmine 05-14-07, 05:54 PM	What I stated was correct. I wasn't disagreeing, though a quick reread tells me it could be mistaken for that. I was using your post, and then further clarifying. The target audience of my post was for Ashanti, not you (Marcus). Sorry :):)
Marcus Majarra 05-14-07, 07:21 PM	It's alright. I had assumed you were replying to my post since it was my post that you quoted.
runestar 05-14-07, 11:14 PM	While Marcus Majarra is correct on this, it does seem that cr for npc classes breaks down past mid lv and would need some revision. The earlier example suggests that a warrior8 is cr7. While this is strictly correct by the stipulated guidelines, it does not make much sense when you start comparing it to other cr7 monsters in the MM, such as the hill giant(which is statistically superior in every aspect). In this case, cr4 or 5 seems more apt.
Ashanti 05-15-07, 07:55 AM	Thanks all! But I think I may still count them as half. Seems more in tune with the rest of the wonky CR system.
Epicweaver 05-15-07, 11:59 AM	Thanks all! But I think I may still count them as half. Seems more in tune with the rest of the wonky CR system.Half would probably work better most of the time (at higher levels a War20 will really own a ECL10 group). As is currently slated... I'd rather fight an Adept20 over a Wizard19 any day of the week.... Hell, I'd probably rather fight an Adept20/Commoner20 rather then a Wizard19. I do think after the first few levels the CR system is really bad for non-heroic NPCs... A Commoner 10? A Commoner 20? Jeez... What's the point of even building non-classed NPCs of such a high level? Yeah yeah yeah realists... I'll take my ball and go home... =(