Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jeibo 04-18-08, 02:05 PM	One psycho player of mine wants to create a nuclear bomb in the actual world of Faerun. Since i have still got some sanity left there is no way in hell i would ever let him do it. But! there is an interesting question rising from this. How much dmg would a nuclear bomb do? :D After various ways we used to come to an approximation we decided something around 3mils d6
wrecan 04-18-08, 04:17 PM	I know I'll regret this, but I'll bite. Let's take the Hiroshima nuke. It had a blast radius of about 1.5 miles, and a secondary blast radius of another 1.5 miles. A D&D blackpowder bomb does d10 (?) in 5' and half that in a 5' range around it. Let's assume the bomb is sized for a medium creature. A 5' diameter enlarged to a 3 mile (15,840 ft.) radius is a 5' square doubled in size about 12 times. So let's treat that as 12 size increases. d10-2d8-3d8-4d8-6d8-8d8-10d8-13d8-16d8-19d8-23d8-27d8-31d8. So that's 31d8 damage to everyone within 1.5 miles of the epicenter (average 140 hp damage) and half damage (70 hp) to everyone and everything 1.5 to 3 miles outside the epicenter. (No saving throw and since most items will be destroyed, no cover.) In addition, everyone within ten miles of the blast will suffer radiation poisoning, which I would treat as a disease. Everyone must make a Fort save DC 25, incubation 30 minutes, damage is d6 Con in Ability Damage every day until two consecutive saving throws are made (or death). The cloud can last d3 days, so even if you save, you keep getting infected if you don't leave the area. Short answer: don't allow nuclear science in your D&D games.
Jeibo 04-18-08, 04:43 PM	As i said, as long as i haven't completely lost it, i wont :) However, i completely dissagree with your approximation :P Like, one of the latest test-nuclear-bombs that went off, actually made an island dissapear from the face of the earth. I don't think 31d8 does that :P
wrecan 04-18-08, 04:55 PM	one of the latest test-nuclear-bombs that went off, actually made an island dissapear from the face of the earth. I don't think 31d8 does that :P I was using the weakest of nukes to be used. Elugelab Island was vaporized by a hydrogen bomb, which was 700 times as powerful as the bomb used on Hiroshima, which would be considered another 10 size increases. 31d8-36d8-41d8-46d8-52d8-58d8-64d8-71d8-78d8-85d8-94d8-103d8 103d8 (463 hp). It would have an 11 mile blast radius (with another 11 miles for half damage (231 hp)). Radiation poisoning could be found within 30 miles radius of the blast. Yeah, I think 103d8 damage could obliterate a small atoll.
Zillah 04-18-08, 05:25 PM	um. here ya go. http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15509202&postcount=14 nuclear DND bomb. kinda scary imo
Salla 04-19-08, 01:51 AM	It deals Plotd6 damage. This is why radioactive materials do not exist in my D&D games. :)
Radijs 04-19-08, 03:45 AM	How would someone go about constructing a device that does that kind of damage? Black powder won't react nearly fast or violently enough. It would be a fart compared to a tropical hurricane. In DnD I'd suspect you'd have to devise a very complex magitechnological device.
Loren Pechtel 04-19-08, 01:13 PM	So that's 31d8 damage to everyone within 1.5 miles of the epicenter (average 140 hp damage) and half damage (70 hp) to everyone and everything 1.5 to 3 miles outside the epicenter. (No saving throw and since most items will be destroyed, no cover.) Except there were a few freak survivors pretty close in to ground zero. In addition, everyone within ten miles of the blast will suffer radiation poisoning, which I would treat as a disease. Everyone must make a Fort save DC 25, incubation 30 minutes, damage is d6 Con in Ability Damage every day until two consecutive saving throws are made (or death). The cloud can last d3 days, so even if you save, you keep getting infected if you don't leave the area. I don't like this model at all. Radiation damage should be modeled as delayed con damage, not a disease. At the time of exposure it's determined whether you will live or die, it just takes time for it to kill you. Furthermore, to fix it needs a heal, not a remove disease. I'm not sure how to apply the damage but the effects should be: Level 1: Take d6 con. After 30 days, take 1 con per day past 30 days. Level 2: d10 con per day. (Occurs at 2x the dose of level 1) Level 3: d6 con per minute, unconscious for the duration. (3x the dose of level 2.) Dig around on the epic boards and you'll find a thread where I showed how to make a multi-megaton nuke with an epic spell and it's actually something just within the possibility for someone to discover--a knowledge of nuclear science is not necessary.
Loren Pechtel 04-19-08, 01:23 PM	How would someone go about constructing a device that does that kind of damage? Black powder won't react nearly fast or violently enough. It would be a fart compared to a tropical hurricane. In DnD I'd suspect you'd have to devise a very complex magitechnological device. Nope. 1 epic spell, no manufacturing needed. Simply conjure up a block of plutonium. You better delay the spell because detonation is instant. You won't get the same yield that a modern weapons engineer could with the same amount of material but you'll be reasonably close and you'll actually get a bigger bang than the engineer could--he's limited by what he can handle before detonation, you aren't. He simply couldn't use that much material in a single device. There is no need to worry about complex explosives, careful shaping or not having your device contaminated with Pu-240. All of the complex engineering of a nuclear bomb is not a matter of making it detonate but rather a matter of making a device which can very rapidly convert from a subcritical state that you can haul around to something like 2x critical needed to get the energy out before it simply blows itself apart. (Take the pieces of a nuke and assemble them slowly, it goes poof. Anyone nearby dies of radiation poisoning but the container might even survive.) (Pu-240 contamination affects the problem the other way around--it might trigger the device as it's assembling, robbing it of much of it's energy. The more it's crushed before detonation the bigger the bang.)
wrecan 04-19-08, 01:53 PM	Except there were a few freak survivors pretty close in to ground zero. That's nice, but in D&D, bursts are pretty deadly. No commoner would survive a 8d6 HD fireball, so I don't see how any commoner in a D&D world is going to survive a nuke. I don't like this model at all. Radiation damage should be modeled as delayed con damage, not a disease. D&D disease doesn't work like real-world disease. It works very much like radiation poisoning. D&D Poison, on the other hand, doesn't work anything like real-world poisons -- it doesn't model anything like the real world. Level 1: Take d6 con. After 30 days, take 1 con per day past 30 days. Most radiation poison from a nuke kills you within days. If you survive a month, you're more likely to die from cancer ten years down the road. And D&D has no rules for stuff like cancer -- which absolutely should be curable by remove disease. Dig around on the epic boards and you'll find a thread where I showed how to make a multi-megaton nuke with an epic spell and it's actually something just within the possibility for someone to discover--a knowledge of nuclear science is not necessary. Why use an epic spell? A wizard with major creation, fabricate and sufficient Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) should be able to whip up a nuke in any campaign world that allows nuclear physics to work. Which, of course, is why no DM does allow it to work.
Someone 04-20-08, 02:01 AM	Why go for fission nukes? Just teleport in some sun-stuff and let thermal diffusion do the rest.
spectralphoenix 04-20-08, 07:20 AM	There was a Dungeon mag (RIP) a few years ago that had a giant explosion modeled where everything within a certain radius was disintegrated with no save. Everything within a larger radius saved or was disintegrated, survivors took 10d6 damage. Next radius took 10d6, reflex half. Every set difference after that damage decreased by 2d6 until it hit zero and you were out of danger from the blast. Or at least it worked something like that, it's been a while. Set the radiuses according to how destructive you want the bomb to be. As for radiation sickness, I'd say roll 4d6 for everyone within a certain distance, 3d6 for everyone a bit further out, and so on down to 1d6 and then 0. They take 2 CON damage per day until they die or hit that limit, and can't recover any damaged abilities until it's over. Depending on how lethal you want it to be, it might be cured by Remove Disease or maybe just Heal (since it's not really a sickness in the classic sense.) Again, adjust numbers and distances depending on how deadly you want the bomb to be.
PrinceOfTheVoid 04-20-08, 08:03 AM	The Immortals Handbook Bestiary has an epic spell called Kiloton, which can be increased like any other seed and has formulae for calculating the damage increae based on the payload. It has a Save-oor-Die Disintegrate at the center, a 60d6 fireball, 40d6 bludgeoning damage, and 6 points of ability drain to Str, Dex, and Con. That's all at the epicenter, the effects obviously diminish the farther away you go.
Loren Pechtel 04-20-08, 05:28 PM	Most radiation poison from a nuke kills you within days. If you survive a month, you're more likely to die from cancer ten years down the road. And D&D has no rules for stuff like cancer -- which absolutely should be curable by remove disease. There are three ways to be killed by radiation beyond it's inducing cancer: 1) Destruction of bone marrow. You're ok for a while but your blood wears out and there's no replacement. It takes about a month before you crash. Exposure at this level can be treated by a bone marrow transplant. (And note that a normal bone marrow transplant procedure involves radiation exposure at this level.) 2) Disruption of the lining of the digestive system. It can't keep things in their proper place. You might live a couple of days. 3) Disruption of the neural mineral balance. Your brain and nerves no longer work right. Why use an epic spell? A wizard with major creation, fabricate and sufficient Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) should be able to whip up a nuke in any campaign world that allows nuclear physics to work. Which, of course, is why no DM does allow it to work. Key: Sufficient knowledge. A weapons engineer with those spells could make a bomb but no wizard is going to know enough nuclear physics to do it. My solution does not requirer a knowledge check at all. A simple description of how to do it is enough and it could possibly be discovered by accident. (Epic alchemist notices an impurity in a uranium sample. He isolates it and conjures up a bigger block of it to study. After being resurrected he knows how to build a nuke.)
Loren Pechtel 04-20-08, 05:29 PM	Why go for fission nukes? Just teleport in some sun-stuff and let thermal diffusion do the rest. And how do you do that?
Loren Pechtel 04-20-08, 05:30 PM	As for radiation sickness, I'd say roll 4d6 for everyone within a certain distance, 3d6 for everyone a bit further out, and so on down to 1d6 and then 0. They take 2 CON damage per day until they die or hit that limit, and can't recover any damaged abilities until it's over. Depending on how lethal you want it to be, it might be cured by Remove Disease or maybe just Heal (since it's not really a sickness in the classic sense.) Again, adjust numbers and distances depending on how deadly you want the bomb to be. At close range it's going to be a lot more than 4d6. I do agree that remove disease is useless, I would permit a heal to save someone.
Someone 04-21-08, 02:31 AM	And how do you do that?Just make up a conjuration spell with enough range to make it to the sun.
vardock 04-23-08, 07:19 PM	there is a spell in the BOVD called apocalipse from the sky. It deals 10d6 damage of the Energy type of your choice in an area of 10 miles per caster level, no save. If your friend has sudden empower/maximize/widen or the proper rod, It becomes the D&D equivalant of a Nuke.
1 ton ghost 04-25-08, 02:24 PM	Faerun, eh? Well, his ambitions, no matter how megalomaniacal and destructive, are interesting. The problem comes from outside intervention even if he were to pull it off. Gods and other deific influences might object to you terminating their source of power: their many faithful that feed them ala prayers. -Talos might be enamored of such a destructive force and offer inspiration -Gond might see the fallout against such crazy tech as an affront to himself and his own faithful. Ppl will backlash against all tech -Kelemvor and Jergal would be pi$$ed; you're killing too many ppl at once and they might not have been preordained. Gonna' result in alot of undead (those that weren't vaporized, and even those, many would be ghosts). -Nature gods would be pi$$ed, mutations, radioactive sh-tholes that once thrived, etc. List goes on. When you want to make a big splash, others will take note. And of course, "There's always a bigger fish." Truth be told though, Storm of Vengeance (it made the high moors) got the same effect really. You want to wipe out a nation, that's it, however, I think Mystra had a thing or 2 to say about super epic magics.
Anathema 04-25-08, 02:41 PM	This kind of thing doesn't do damage in numbers, it does damage in percentages. Percentages of the population.
Man in the Funny Hat 04-26-08, 12:46 PM	But! there is an interesting question rising from this. How much dmg would a nuclear bomb do?If we're talking about a RL nuclear warhead being detonated in a D&D world then we simply need to know megatonnage. If we're talking Hiroshima-scale weaponry then everone and everything in 1mi radius is dead/destroyed - NO SAVE. From 1 to 1.25 miles there's a save but damage should simply be large enough to destroy most structures and kill all but higher level characters EVEN IF THEY SAVE. From 1.25 to 2 miles you probably have a zone where a decent percentage of structures and even people will survive - at least for a time. Save DC's in this range should allow 1st level commoners to at least have a nominal chance of successful saves and damage low enough to POSSIBLY survive the immediate blast even if they fail. From 2 to 3.5 miles there should still be fatalities and destruction but less heavy a percentage meaning lower DC saves and lighter still damage. At this point it becomes important though to consider secondary sources of damage - death from collapsing buildings, fires and flying debris - so COVER and other modifications should actually have an effect on saves. And then there are the radiation effects that will kill blast survivors within hours or days. The one advantage that people in a D&D world would have is that once they are outside of the death-with-no-save range that magic MIGHT have an effect upon their chances of survival, but otherwise there isn't anything left of you. In D&D hit points don't care what caused them - if it's expressed in hit points it's curable by the basic healing spells and abilities. If it's expressed as ability damage that, too, is curable though to a lesser extent. If it's a "normal" disease it's curable. If it's considered a "magic" disease, or a disease/"curse" then it SHOULD still have rules for how it can be removed or survived even if there isn't a one-shot spell cure. It is the lingering radiation effects of an atomic blast that are actually EASIEST to survive simply by continued, occasonal use of curative magic to replace lost hit points or ability damage. It is the central blast radius that cannot and should not be survivable by any means short of the victim being a deific entity - and maybe not even then. In any case, damage effects from a nuclear blast should be extrapolated down from the known real-world effects, rather than extrapolated up in mere points of damage from known in-game effects.
Loren Pechtel 04-26-08, 03:40 PM	It is the lingering radiation effects of an atomic blast that are actually EASIEST to survive simply by continued, occasonal use of curative magic to replace lost hit points or ability damage. It is the central blast radius that cannot and should not be survivable by any means short of the victim being a deific entity - and maybe not even then. Disagree. Sufficient protection will work even *VERY* close to an atomic bomb. Consider Project Orion. Think of the old cartoon trick where the guy puts a stick of dynamite under something, sits on the thing and goes flying. That's Orion--except with nukes. The bombs would be small, the standoff range a few hundred feet. The only damage expected to the pusher plate was burning off a *VERY* thin coating of oil which would be replaced before the next bomb was used. Without the oil the plate would erode slowly. Behind the plate would be some *BIG* shock absorbers. Beyond that, the crew capsule. Yes--Orion was to be manned. The atmospheric test ban treaty put an end to Orion before a lot of testing was done but no technical problems were found other than fallout casualties.
Man in the Funny Hat 04-27-08, 01:03 PM	Disagree. Sufficient protection will work even *VERY* close to an atomic bomb. Consider Project Orion. Think of the old cartoon trick where the guy puts a stick of dynamite under something, sits on the thing and goes flying. That's Orion--except with nukes. The bombs would be small, the standoff range a few hundred feet.If I read the wikipedia entry correctly the Orion ship itself would be between 300 tons and 8 MILLION tons. Nobody is going to be inside a 300 ton, metal, specifically shock-absorbing structure positioned 200 feet above the nuke, and I would assume we're talking about a nuclear weapon as opposed to a low-yield device designed specifically for minimum death and damage. That's gotta make all the difference. And the stone walls and wood buildings would vaporize, melt, burn, fall over and fly away - just like the people. Disagree with your disagreement. Death or total destruction, with no save regardless of bonuses or circumstances in a 1 mile radius (give or take depending on the yield). Divine power or intervention only (or maybe artifact like Machine of Lum the Mad, etc.)
Loren Pechtel 04-27-08, 04:47 PM	Disagree with your disagreement. Death or total destruction, with no save regardless of bonuses or circumstances in a 1 mile radius (give or take depending on the yield). Divine power or intervention only (or maybe artifact like Machine of Lum the Mad, etc.) Actually, it's quite survivable. You'll need 4 rounds to prepare, although multiple casters can cut that down. Wall of iron, stone or anything else opaque. Wall of force. Wall of iron or stone. Prismatic sphere. This will protect you 10' from a large hydrogen bomb. The initial wall will absorb the incoming energy. It is of course vaporized in the process but the wall of force keeps it from being blown towards those being protected. It is still going to glow at extreme heat. That's why the second wall--to absorb that heat for long enough for the really hot stuff to dissipate. The prismatic sphere will protect you from anything except the thermal effects (since they're non-magical light they'll come through.)
narack 04-28-08, 12:42 PM	take a look at my signature link
qwertyu63 04-29-08, 02:28 PM	One psycho player of mine wants to create a nuclear bomb in the actual world of Faerun. Since i have still got some sanity left there is no way in hell i would ever let him do it. But! there is an interesting question rising from this. How much dmg would a nuclear bomb do? :D After various ways we used to come to an approximation we decided something around 3mils d6 As for me I would say instant death (No Save) if standing next to the bomb and (100 - Distance from bomb)D20 to others and a 2D6 Drain for the next (2D100)-Distance from bomb rounds for those that live.
Anathema 05-02-08, 05:31 PM	Personally I think it would be far more interesting to replace the effects of a nuclear bomb with ones that are more appropriate for a D&D world. Physical damage would remain the same. Radiation damage changed to a wasting disease that turns people in to undeads. The EMP changed to dead magic/wild magic (saying the explosion damaged the weave). I dunno, it sounds like it would be fun to have to deal with the aftermath of such a massive explosion. In Faerun you could take out one big city and its environs with such a bomb and turn it in to an adventure area ala` Myth Drannor.
MacrossSD 05-02-08, 05:56 PM	One psycho player of mine wants to create a nuclear bomb in the actual world of Faerun. Since i have still got some sanity left there is no way in hell i would ever let him do it. But! there is an interesting question rising from this. How much dmg would a nuclear bomb do? :D After various ways we used to come to an approximation we decided something around 3mils d6 I think in d20 Modern they just say everything in the blast dies. There's a spell in The Slayers D20 game that replicates the spell "Giga Slave" from the show, and it too is pretty much a "everything in the spell's area of effect dies." The effect as shown in the TV show is very reminiscent of an atomic bomb blast. By the by...this psycho player's character wouldn't happen to be named Waldorf (http://www.greyhawkonline.com/wogcomic/title/wogstrip149a.htm), would it?
kelvinaw273 05-04-08, 07:56 AM	One psycho player of mine wants to create a nuclear bomb in the actual world of Faerun. Since i have still got some sanity left there is no way in hell i would ever let him do it. But! there is an interesting question rising from this. How much dmg would a nuclear bomb do? :D After various ways we used to come to an approximation we decided something around 3mils d6 I would basically say: "It does as much damage as I say it does. But the Tarrasque still regenerates, and now it's radioactive." More seriously, I wouldn't allow it either. If the player insisted, I would start rolling for the damage they took in the resulting lab accident, the quantity being {enough}d6 for them to get that they should stop.
Loren Pechtel 05-04-08, 04:48 PM	I would basically say: "It does as much damage as I say it does. But the Tarrasque still regenerates, and now it's radioactive." More seriously, I wouldn't allow it either. If the player insisted, I would start rolling for the damage they took in the resulting lab accident, the quantity being {enough}d6 for them to get that they should stop. Yeah--my lab accident scenario for how one could be developed means the guy dies in discovering it. Since it requires an epic caster, though, it's not unreasonable that someone resurrected him.
Bloodsoul 05-05-08, 09:22 PM	there is a spell in the BOVD called apocalipse from the sky. It deals 10d6 damage of the Energy type of your choice in an area of 10 miles per caster level, no save. If your friend has sudden empower/maximize/widen or the proper rod, It becomes the D&D equivalant of a Nuke. Even better if you've got "Ignore Material Components." :D Once tried to calculate nuke damage using the DMG's dynamite damage. Don't think I did that right..
Doomsought 05-07-08, 08:24 PM	Go back to wizard communities and go to D20 modern, there are quite a few good ones floating around there. I'd say just make hire a "locate city bomb" so you don't mix it.
nivlac_calvin 05-08-08, 04:39 PM	I belive that a nuke would deal damage equal to: 'untillyourhandfallsof'D12 or somewhere around that.
nivlac_calvin 05-08-08, 04:46 PM	or mabey D% instead of D12...