Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fekk 04-11-07, 04:28 PM	Hey all, Does 3E combat include rules similar to the 2E "overbearing" scenario in combat? That is, how do you address a swarm of attackers trying to "dogpile" a single combatant? Sorry if that's a dumb question. I don't have the 3E rulebooks, and I'm not turning up much w/ google. If this has been discussed before, could somebody point me to a relevant thread or article?
tos_shai_hulud 04-11-07, 04:43 PM	How do you mean a swarm of attackers? Do you mean a swarm: A swarm is a collection of Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creatures that acts as a single creature. A swarm has the characteristics of its type, except as noted here. A swarm has a single pool of Hit Dice and hit points, a single initiative modifier, a single speed, and a single Armor Class. A swarm makes saving throws as a single creature. A single swarm occupies a square (if it is made up of nonflying creatures) or a cube (of flying creatures) 10 feet on a side, but its reach is 0 feet, like its component creatures. In order to attack, it moves into an opponent’s space, which provokes an attack of opportunity. It can occupy the same space as a creature of any size, since it crawls all over its prey. A swarm can move through squares occupied by enemies and vice versa without impediment, although the swarm provokes an attack of opportunity if it does so. A swarm can move through cracks or holes large enough for its component creatures. A swarm of Tiny creatures consists of 300 nonflying creatures or 1,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Diminutive creatures consists of 1,500 nonflying creatures or 5,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Fine creatures consists of 10,000 creatures, whether they are flying or not. Swarms of nonflying creatures include many more creatures than could normally fit in a 10-foot square based on their normal space, because creatures in a swarm are packed tightly together and generally crawl over each other and their prey when moving or attacking. Larger swarms are represented by multiples of single swarms. The area occupied by a large swarm is completely shapeable, though the swarm usually remains in contiguous squares. OR do you just mean many attackers? If you are looking for swarm rules, just follow the link in the quote above. It will give you more information. Otherwise, the total number of creatures that can attack depends on how many can fit around a player. For instance, eight small or medium creatures can fit around a medium creature and attack. If you use queezing rules, more than that can fit and attack. While squeezing, the enemies take penalties to attack and armor class. You should try to avoid squeezing, as it complicates combat. While squeezing rules were not meant to allow multiple attackers to share the same square, it can work for it: In some cases, you may have to squeeze into or through an area that isn’t as wide as the space you take up. You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty to AC. When a Large creature (which normally takes up four squares) squeezes into a space that’s one square wide, the creature’s miniature figure occupies two squares, centered on the line between the two squares. For a bigger creature, center the creature likewise in the area it squeezes into. A creature can squeeze past an opponent while moving but it can’t end its movement in an occupied square. To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space’s width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can’t attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a -4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
Fekk 04-11-07, 06:29 PM	How do you mean a swarm of attackers? Do you mean a swarm...OR do you just mean many attackers? I should have been more specific. Sorry. I meant "many attackers", but not in the sense of traditional combat. In 2E there was the "overbearing" rule for when a large group of attackers acts in concert. Sometimes the most effective way to attack is simply to pull an opponent down by sheer numbers. No attempt is made to gain a particular hold or even to harm the victim. The only concern is to pin and restrain him. The rule gave a bonus for each additional attacker with no maximum number of attackers explicitly mentioned in that section. Maybe I've been wrong all these years, but I came to think of that as the "dog-pile" rule, where an infinite number of monkeys could (in theory) jump on you and hold you down until you said "Hamlet". Or whatever. I read the "grappling" rules, but didn't see anything that addressed the possibility of, say, 5 or 20 or 30 or 100 human-sized enemies overwhelming a super-duper-high-level-fighter type. I'm going to have to give some thought to the "squeeze" rule and how I might use it. Thanks.
tos_shai_hulud 04-11-07, 06:40 PM	Oh, ok, grapple does have a maximum number of grapplers. I believe a maximum of four medium grapplers or eight small grapplers can physically be in the area to hold down a single person. I would allow either all to be involved in the grapple (the target gets one attempt versus all of his grapplers) or they could use the aid another action to grant bonuses against the target. I am not sure, but since grapple takes place in a single square, you might be able to have the grapple surrounded by another eight creatures performing the aid another action on grapple (maybe not since those eight could not actually be part of the grapple, but it makes sense if they are adding body-weight to the mix).
allenchan 04-12-07, 04:56 AM	1) Aid another actions 2) Mob templates