Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KingMarl 03-10-07, 01:06 PM	So the spell Phantasmal Assailant (Spell Compendium, p154) specifically lists its effect as damage, i.e.: If the target succeeds on an initial Will save, it recognizes that the images are not real, and the spell fails. If not, the phantasms strike the target, dealing 8 points of Wisdom damage and 8 points of Dexterity damage (4 points each on a successful Fortitude save). The whole "penalties don't stack" thing has been gone over and over in other threads ... but I note that this is damage. House rulings aside, I read it that you can throw a whole slew of these at someone, and essentially paralyze them once 3-4 of them are successful (after all, after the first one, that Will save gets harder and harder). Now, the save DC is a mere 12+Int, but I can see a high-level caster using Heighten spell; then you're probably looking at 13-19+Int. Hell, quicken a few of these things and you're throwing 2 a round. Definitely a way to take out that pesky cleric. Start the combat with an 8th-level one followed by a quickened 4th-level one and you've got someone making DC22 and DC18 Will saves, not taking into account Int higher than 18 and any other DC boosts. Am I missing something? I guess it's intended to be offset by the relatively low DC, so perhaps it's not such a big deal after all.
CharlieRock 03-10-07, 02:18 PM	Alas, I own the spell compendium and it is not here :( I'm guessing it was supposed to be offset by the low(er) DC. I remember in a previous edition that a phantasmal killer actually did damage until the target realized it was fake, but then that damage dealt was healed as a result of the disbelief. If the PK killed the target before that moment of disbeleif came, they actually died though.
Marcus Majarra 03-10-07, 05:08 PM	You got it pretty much right, KingMarl. Keep in mind, however, that paralyzing someone through multiple castings is not very reliable, what with the two saves and the fact that it paralyzes your own actions in the meantime. The unfortunate thing is: creatures with low Dex typically have a good fortitude save, so even if that will save gets tougher, the fortitude save doesn't.
KingMarl 03-11-07, 12:39 PM	True. I guess it's yet another entry in the category of "spells to use if you're stuck with a lot of low-level arcane casters up against a single high level opponent". Though I still think that the Fell Drain Magic Missile trick works better as a trap. You'll drain 2-3 levels per caster - probably a lot more effective than hoping multiple Phantasmal Assailants succeed.
Marcus Majarra 03-11-07, 03:10 PM	Fell Drain Magic Missile will be better used against multiple opponents. Against a single opponent, you'll drain no more than one level.
Bopple 03-12-07, 08:26 AM	Several things to note; 1. It's a double-save spell. The target have to fail a Will save to disbelieve it and then roll a Fort save to halve the damage. 2. It has [Fear] and [Mind-affecting] descriptors. Heroes' Feast, Greater Heroism, Mind Blank gives you total immunity to it. Heroism gives you +4 bonus to save. 3. By the time you can cast it has an 8th lvl spell, too many things are immune to it. Of course it can be effective to certain enemies. But the chance to encounter such monsters is pretty low. You'd better prepare spells for more generic purpose, at that level.
KingMarl 03-13-07, 09:12 AM	Fell Drain Magic Missile will be better used against multiple opponents. Against a single opponent, you'll drain no more than one level. Absolutely. It's a great trap for when you have fewer casters than party members - that way each caster drains a level with each missile. I've found that against a smart party you only get one round (two if you're lucky with a surprise round), then the Death Ward goes up. But it's a painful round. Note that it's not really very effective unless you have multiple casters - once characters are above 6th or 7th level, temporarily losing a single level is more of an annoyance, and at really high levels, you have to hit 'em pretty seriously in the level loss department for them to care. At high level they're far more afraid of Con damage. Con damage is nice, because the higher level you are, the more painful it is. DM: Take 4 Con damage. Player: Aaaah! I just lost 50 hit points! DM: It hits you again. Player: runs away. In general I've been looking for ways to soften up a high-level party a bit without having to drop a Mordenkainen's on them, which is kind of mean from my point of view. I view that as me saying at a personal level "Okay, time to take away some of your magic items."
Lord Nedd 03-14-07, 06:28 PM	Absolutely. It's a great trap for when you have fewer casters than party members - that way each caster drains a level with each missile. I've found that against a smart party you only get one round (two if you're lucky with a surprise round), then the Death Ward goes up. But it's a painful round. Note that it's not really very effective unless you have multiple casters - once characters are above 6th or 7th level, temporarily losing a single level is more of an annoyance, and at really high levels, you have to hit 'em pretty seriously in the level loss department for them to care. At high level they're far more afraid of Con damage. Con damage is nice, because the higher level you are, the more painful it is. DM: Take 4 Con damage. Player: Aaaah! I just lost 50 hit points! DM: It hits you again. Player: runs away. In general I've been looking for ways to soften up a high-level party a bit without having to drop a Mordenkainen's on them, which is kind of mean from my point of view. I view that as me saying at a personal level "Okay, time to take away some of your magic items." We just did a part of EtCR where there were two battles back to back with Ability damage. The half the party was wounded from the first battle (with Bloodmote Cloud that did con damage) and then walked into a conflict with a seahag that with her horrific appearance did some 2d6 str damage. Several of the non fighters just about collapsed. That was memorable to a couple of the players (always a good thing!). -LN