Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lordhed_2 04-16-08, 05:38 PM	I'm running a campaign that's been going a long time (level 1 start and we're now level 25) and one of my players, the sorcerer of the group, has been finding enemies are making their saves against most of his spells and wants to homebrew a feat for his character along the lines of: Harden Spell [Metamagic, Epic] Prerequisites: 21 HD, must be able to cast 9th-level spells, Spellcraft 20 ranks, casting stat 20. Benefit As you take this feat, pick a save (Fortitude, Reflex or Will). Whenever you cast a spell that has that save, you may add 1/3 your caster level to that save DC. A spell that you apply this feat to takes up a spell slot two levels higher than normal. Special You may take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Pick a different save each time you take this spell. Is this balanced? (considering he's not a character-optimiser, who I wouldn't give this to). Any other input is also welcome. EDIT: Clarified on the spell level thing and added prerequisites.
Merestil Haye 04-16-08, 06:01 PM	I'm running a campaign that's been going a long time (level 1 start and we're now level 25) and one of my players, the sorcerer of the group, has been finding enemies are making their saves against most of his spells and wants to homebrew a feat for his character along the lines of: Harden Spell [Metamagic, Epic] Benefit As you take this feat, pick a save (Fortitude, Reflex or Will). Whenever you cast a spell that has that save, you may cast the spell at +2 caster level in order to add 1/3 your caster level to that save DC. Special You may take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Pick a different save each time you take this spell. Is this balanced? (considering he's not a character-optimiser, who I wouldn't give this to). Any other input is also welcome.I don't think this is remotely balanced. He wants to do two things. Increase the spell save DC and Increase the caster level of the spell.Say no. He's written the feat with two advantages, but the way you've presented it makes it sound as if he's sold the CL change as a disadvantage. It's not. The increase to the DC is far, far too high. Given the lengths to which the designers went to nerf powers that increased the saving throw of a spell, this should not even get to the starting gate. If he wants to increase the saving throw of his spells, he should be taking Improved Heighten Spell and Improved Spell Capacity.
sblaxman 04-16-08, 07:49 PM	Do you mean the spell takes 2 slots higher or gets +2 caster levels? Big difference.
Wih 04-16-08, 08:03 PM	There's already a metamagic feat in place to increase Spell DC - Heighten Spell. Not only is this feat badly written and balanced (there's no spell-level adjustment on it, and it's an Epic feat without any pre-reqs?), but it's superflous.
Eldritch_Lord 04-16-08, 08:16 PM	Do you mean the spell takes 2 slots higher or gets +2 caster levels? Big difference. I'm guessing the former is what he means, given that there's no Slot Adjustment section. That makes it a bit more balanced, particularly since (A) he's Epic; stuff breaks down anyway then, and (B) the OP said he's not really an optimizer.
Sinfire Titan 04-16-08, 10:21 PM	There's already a metamagic feat in place to increase Spell DC - Heighten Spell. Not only is this feat badly written and balanced (there's no spell-level adjustment on it, and it's an Epic feat without any pre-reqs?), but it's superflous. Epic feats all have the prereq of 21 HD.
ORC_Clayben 04-17-08, 10:38 AM	Moved as per VCL request.
Patrick Draken-Korin 04-18-08, 05:23 PM	I'd set the prerequiesites to Spellcraft 24 and casting stat 25 (more in line with most epic spells). You don't actually need to specify the 21 HD thing for epic feats, just make sure it's listed as an epic feat (like you had). Speaking as someone among those who doesn't use Heighten Spell (place a spell in a higher slot automatically sets the spell at a higher DC; spell level means access), I'd say this is only somewhat overpowered. Set it at +1/5 caster level to the save DC, for 3 slots higher. At 1/3 caster level that's an increase of +7 at level 21, when a caster can first get the ability; all of a sudden every creature with a save balanced for level 21 will be failing saves and creatues strong for 21 will be no better tan average. At 1/5 caster level, it's only a bonus of +4 at level 21. Still a nice bonus, but reasonable. OTOH, if you play what tarkin refers to as an anything goes game, go nuts, that'll work fine. For a loose game, +1/5 caster level to the save DC, for 2 slots higher would work, but that's rather strong for my taste. Finally, whichever chose you take, I'd throw in an additional restriction on re-taking the feat; the second time you take the feat, you caster level is calculated at -5, and the third time you take te feat, your caster level is calculated at -10. This makes the first choice the most valuable, considering that a epic wizard could have this feat all three times by level 27 (or level 24 if it counted as an appropriate bonus feat).
Nathreet 04-18-08, 06:00 PM	Heavily unbalanced. As mentioned there's already heighten spell. There's also spell focus, greater spell focus and epic spell focus. And even epic spell focus only grants a +1, to 1 of 7 schools. Vs. a +"WTH!!!?!" to 1 of 3 saves. Even allowing greater epic spell focus would be unbalanced, because it's a +1 that stacks with an existing +1. Heck simply allowing someone a 3rd spell focus feat is an epic level thing to do. Too imba for non-epic, I mean. I'd recommend allowing a +1/+2 under circumstances that are more/much-more restrictive than epic spell focus. Or after giving something up. For example, a +2 to one and only one spell.
lordhed_2 04-16-08, 05:38 PM	I'm running a campaign that's been going a long time (level 1 start and we're now level 25) and one of my players, the sorcerer of the group, has been finding enemies are making their saves against most of his spells and wants to homebrew a feat for his character along the lines of: Harden Spell [Metamagic, Epic] Prerequisites: 21 HD, must be able to cast 9th-level spells, Spellcraft 20 ranks, casting stat 20. Benefit As you take this feat, pick a save (Fortitude, Reflex or Will). Whenever you cast a spell that has that save, you may add 1/3 your caster level to that save DC. A spell that you apply this feat to takes up a spell slot two levels higher than normal. Special You may take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Pick a different save each time you take this spell. Is this balanced? (considering he's not a character-optimiser, who I wouldn't give this to). Any other input is also welcome. EDIT: Clarified on the spell level thing and added prerequisites.
Merestil Haye 04-16-08, 06:01 PM	I'm running a campaign that's been going a long time (level 1 start and we're now level 25) and one of my players, the sorcerer of the group, has been finding enemies are making their saves against most of his spells and wants to homebrew a feat for his character along the lines of: Harden Spell [Metamagic, Epic] Benefit As you take this feat, pick a save (Fortitude, Reflex or Will). Whenever you cast a spell that has that save, you may cast the spell at +2 caster level in order to add 1/3 your caster level to that save DC. Special You may take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Pick a different save each time you take this spell. Is this balanced? (considering he's not a character-optimiser, who I wouldn't give this to). Any other input is also welcome.I don't think this is remotely balanced. He wants to do two things. Increase the spell save DC and Increase the caster level of the spell.Say no. He's written the feat with two advantages, but the way you've presented it makes it sound as if he's sold the CL change as a disadvantage. It's not. The increase to the DC is far, far too high. Given the lengths to which the designers went to nerf powers that increased the saving throw of a spell, this should not even get to the starting gate. If he wants to increase the saving throw of his spells, he should be taking Improved Heighten Spell and Improved Spell Capacity.
sblaxman 04-16-08, 07:49 PM	Do you mean the spell takes 2 slots higher or gets +2 caster levels? Big difference.
Wih 04-16-08, 08:03 PM	There's already a metamagic feat in place to increase Spell DC - Heighten Spell. Not only is this feat badly written and balanced (there's no spell-level adjustment on it, and it's an Epic feat without any pre-reqs?), but it's superflous.
Eldritch_Lord 04-16-08, 08:16 PM	Do you mean the spell takes 2 slots higher or gets +2 caster levels? Big difference. I'm guessing the former is what he means, given that there's no Slot Adjustment section. That makes it a bit more balanced, particularly since (A) he's Epic; stuff breaks down anyway then, and (B) the OP said he's not really an optimizer.
Sinfire Titan 04-16-08, 10:21 PM	There's already a metamagic feat in place to increase Spell DC - Heighten Spell. Not only is this feat badly written and balanced (there's no spell-level adjustment on it, and it's an Epic feat without any pre-reqs?), but it's superflous. Epic feats all have the prereq of 21 HD.
ORC_Clayben 04-17-08, 10:38 AM	Moved as per VCL request.
Patrick Draken-Korin 04-18-08, 05:23 PM	I'd set the prerequiesites to Spellcraft 24 and casting stat 25 (more in line with most epic spells). You don't actually need to specify the 21 HD thing for epic feats, just make sure it's listed as an epic feat (like you had). Speaking as someone among those who doesn't use Heighten Spell (place a spell in a higher slot automatically sets the spell at a higher DC; spell level means access), I'd say this is only somewhat overpowered. Set it at +1/5 caster level to the save DC, for 3 slots higher. At 1/3 caster level that's an increase of +7 at level 21, when a caster can first get the ability; all of a sudden every creature with a save balanced for level 21 will be failing saves and creatues strong for 21 will be no better tan average. At 1/5 caster level, it's only a bonus of +4 at level 21. Still a nice bonus, but reasonable. OTOH, if you play what tarkin refers to as an anything goes game, go nuts, that'll work fine. For a loose game, +1/5 caster level to the save DC, for 2 slots higher would work, but that's rather strong for my taste. Finally, whichever chose you take, I'd throw in an additional restriction on re-taking the feat; the second time you take the feat, you caster level is calculated at -5, and the third time you take te feat, your caster level is calculated at -10. This makes the first choice the most valuable, considering that a epic wizard could have this feat all three times by level 27 (or level 24 if it counted as an appropriate bonus feat).
Nathreet 04-18-08, 06:00 PM	Heavily unbalanced. As mentioned there's already heighten spell. There's also spell focus, greater spell focus and epic spell focus. And even epic spell focus only grants a +1, to 1 of 7 schools. Vs. a +"WTH!!!?!" to 1 of 3 saves. Even allowing greater epic spell focus would be unbalanced, because it's a +1 that stacks with an existing +1. Heck simply allowing someone a 3rd spell focus feat is an epic level thing to do. Too imba for non-epic, I mean. I'd recommend allowing a +1/+2 under circumstances that are more/much-more restrictive than epic spell focus. Or after giving something up. For example, a +2 to one and only one spell.