Power Attack Crits [Archive] - Wizards Community

Power Attack Crits [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Karui_Kage
05-23-07, 07:09 PM I should know this, and I imagine if I spent enough time looking it up, I'd find it. However, I'm on the boards a lot, and figure I'd ask players here.

You have a X level fighter. Let's say 9th. He has an 18 Strength (+4), Power Attack, and a two-handed weapon. Greataxe. It can even be a +1.

This player crits with said Greataxe, while doing a full Power Attack (9).

Normal damage would be 1d12+6 (str x 1.5) + 1 (enhancement) + 18 (double PA)

A crit without PA would be x3, or:

3d12+18+3

Would the PA multiply as well? A crit is defined as multiplying everything except extra damage dice, like a sneak attack. A PA is not damage dice, just pure extra damage. So would the crit PA be 18 or 54?

Thanks for the help!
Einvaldurinn_mikli
05-23-07, 07:10 PM 54.
Karui_Kage
05-23-07, 08:21 PM Crazy. That makes power attack a lot more powerful than I previously thought. :)
runestar
05-23-07, 09:50 PM You still have to confirm first...;)
Karui_Kage
05-23-07, 11:51 PM True, but it isn't that hard for higher level tanks to confirm a crit, especially if they only use a part of their BAB. Even only taking -5 out of a +20 BAB could potentially lead to +30 to their damage with a 2-handed weapon, and that's just the PA. :)

Well, thanks for confirming guys, much appreciated.
Soceus
05-24-07, 03:19 AM yeah, there's currently a half-orc barbarian/frenzied beserker build that's going on in my dnd group that has power attack as one of it's bases for damage, we are using the 28 points point buy system, and he has a 24 strength, 34 while raging and frenzied. then power attack with a 2 handed weapon, improved power attack, leap attack, and shock trooper for a 6:1 power attack ratio with a keen falcion... it hurts quick... Power attack is just a great way to get more damage quick.
Kragg Bonemeal
05-24-07, 09:39 AM This is why, real world or DnD, you don't mess with the 300lb, rippling muscle, possibly psychotic guy carrying the big axe.
runestar
05-24-07, 10:06 AM This is why, real world or DnD, you don't mess with the 300lb, rippling muscle, possibly psychotic guy carrying the big axe.
Yeah, whatever happened to plain old common sense...;) :P
Phrennzy
05-24-07, 10:50 AM This thread has now increased my own PC's damage output.

I had no idea that you doubled the damage from Power Attack when using a two handed weapon.

My Half-Orc Barbarian has been stuck using a falchion (stupid rust monster got my greatsword).

But now, with a mere 4 point power attack, I can do 2d4+7+8. It threatens on an 18-20, and with a crit, that's an average of 34.5 damage.

I just emailed that to my DM. Heh.
Karui_Kage
05-24-07, 12:46 PM Heh, yeah, it's pretty nice. If he asks for a reference, make sure to tell him it's just under the Power Attack description on page 98 of the PHB.

"If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls."
Midrealm_DM
05-24-07, 01:13 PM This player crits with said Greataxe, while doing a full Power Attack (9).

Normal damage would be 1d12+6 (str x 1.5) + 1 (enhancement) + 18 (double PA)

A crit without PA would be x3, or:

3d12+18+3

Would the PA multiply as well? A crit is defined as multiplying everything except extra damage dice, like a sneak attack. A PA is not damage dice, just pure extra damage. So would the crit PA be 18 or 54?

Thanks for the help!

P 140 of the player's handbook states
"...you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses..."
It continues to state that "Extra damage over and above the weapon's normal damage, such as that dealt by a sneak attack or ...a flaming sword, is not multiplied"

So the question is, is a Power Attack a 'usual bonus'
I have always said yes, because the two examples given are adding extra die to the roll (instead of a static bonus). Further a power attack gives a penalty to attack and decreases the chance that the crit would be confirmed. So a mechanic is built in to decrease these massive crits.
So in your example the player would roll
1d12+3+1+18 three times (or 3d12 +66)
Salla
05-24-07, 05:54 PM The basic rule is:

If the damage bonus is listed as 'plus X', as with weapon enhancements (sword+1), Strength bonus, or the Power Attack bonus, it is multiplied through.

If the damage bonus is listed as 'plus XdY', as with sneak attack, the 'energy' or 'energy burst' weapon effects, or the like, then it is not.
crashlogic
05-24-07, 08:23 PM Added Damage from PA counts as usual bonuses, the extra dx damage does not.

So, assuming a fighter with 18 strength using power attack to gain a +1 bonus to hit does d8+4+1 with a long sword. If he crits he does 2d8+8+2 with a long sword.

Now lets say he is unsing a greatsword, which is a two handed weapon:
he does 2d6+6 (1.5 x Str bonus) +2 (2x power attack bonus) damage.

If he crits with the Zweihander, then he does 4d6+12+4

if he has a level of rougue tossed in, and gets his sneak attack: he adds 1d6 to this damage.
Donovan Morningfire
05-29-07, 10:31 AM This is why, real world or DnD, you don't mess with the 300lb, rippling muscle, possibly psychotic guy carrying the big axe.
Unless you're the 200lbs, definitely psychotic guy carrying a bazooka ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Karui_Kage 05-23-07, 07:09 PM	I should know this, and I imagine if I spent enough time looking it up, I'd find it. However, I'm on the boards a lot, and figure I'd ask players here. You have a X level fighter. Let's say 9th. He has an 18 Strength (+4), Power Attack, and a two-handed weapon. Greataxe. It can even be a +1. This player crits with said Greataxe, while doing a full Power Attack (9). Normal damage would be 1d12+6 (str x 1.5) + 1 (enhancement) + 18 (double PA) A crit without PA would be x3, or: 3d12+18+3 Would the PA multiply as well? A crit is defined as multiplying everything except extra damage dice, like a sneak attack. A PA is not damage dice, just pure extra damage. So would the crit PA be 18 or 54? Thanks for the help!
Einvaldurinn_mikli 05-23-07, 07:10 PM	54.
Karui_Kage 05-23-07, 08:21 PM	Crazy. That makes power attack a lot more powerful than I previously thought. :)
runestar 05-23-07, 09:50 PM	You still have to confirm first...;)
Karui_Kage 05-23-07, 11:51 PM	True, but it isn't that hard for higher level tanks to confirm a crit, especially if they only use a part of their BAB. Even only taking -5 out of a +20 BAB could potentially lead to +30 to their damage with a 2-handed weapon, and that's just the PA. :) Well, thanks for confirming guys, much appreciated.
Soceus 05-24-07, 03:19 AM	yeah, there's currently a half-orc barbarian/frenzied beserker build that's going on in my dnd group that has power attack as one of it's bases for damage, we are using the 28 points point buy system, and he has a 24 strength, 34 while raging and frenzied. then power attack with a 2 handed weapon, improved power attack, leap attack, and shock trooper for a 6:1 power attack ratio with a keen falcion... it hurts quick... Power attack is just a great way to get more damage quick.
Kragg Bonemeal 05-24-07, 09:39 AM	This is why, real world or DnD, you don't mess with the 300lb, rippling muscle, possibly psychotic guy carrying the big axe.
runestar 05-24-07, 10:06 AM	This is why, real world or DnD, you don't mess with the 300lb, rippling muscle, possibly psychotic guy carrying the big axe. Yeah, whatever happened to plain old common sense...;) :P
Phrennzy 05-24-07, 10:50 AM	This thread has now increased my own PC's damage output. I had no idea that you doubled the damage from Power Attack when using a two handed weapon. My Half-Orc Barbarian has been stuck using a falchion (stupid rust monster got my greatsword). But now, with a mere 4 point power attack, I can do 2d4+7+8. It threatens on an 18-20, and with a crit, that's an average of 34.5 damage. I just emailed that to my DM. Heh.
Karui_Kage 05-24-07, 12:46 PM	Heh, yeah, it's pretty nice. If he asks for a reference, make sure to tell him it's just under the Power Attack description on page 98 of the PHB. "If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls."
Midrealm_DM 05-24-07, 01:13 PM	This player crits with said Greataxe, while doing a full Power Attack (9). Normal damage would be 1d12+6 (str x 1.5) + 1 (enhancement) + 18 (double PA) A crit without PA would be x3, or: 3d12+18+3 Would the PA multiply as well? A crit is defined as multiplying everything except extra damage dice, like a sneak attack. A PA is not damage dice, just pure extra damage. So would the crit PA be 18 or 54? Thanks for the help! P 140 of the player's handbook states "...you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses..." It continues to state that "Extra damage over and above the weapon's normal damage, such as that dealt by a sneak attack or ...a flaming sword, is not multiplied" So the question is, is a Power Attack a 'usual bonus' I have always said yes, because the two examples given are adding extra die to the roll (instead of a static bonus). Further a power attack gives a penalty to attack and decreases the chance that the crit would be confirmed. So a mechanic is built in to decrease these massive crits. So in your example the player would roll 1d12+3+1+18 three times (or 3d12 +66)
Salla 05-24-07, 05:54 PM	The basic rule is: If the damage bonus is listed as 'plus X', as with weapon enhancements (sword+1), Strength bonus, or the Power Attack bonus, it is multiplied through. If the damage bonus is listed as 'plus XdY', as with sneak attack, the 'energy' or 'energy burst' weapon effects, or the like, then it is not.
crashlogic 05-24-07, 08:23 PM	Added Damage from PA counts as usual bonuses, the extra dx damage does not. So, assuming a fighter with 18 strength using power attack to gain a +1 bonus to hit does d8+4+1 with a long sword. If he crits he does 2d8+8+2 with a long sword. Now lets say he is unsing a greatsword, which is a two handed weapon: he does 2d6+6 (1.5 x Str bonus) +2 (2x power attack bonus) damage. If he crits with the Zweihander, then he does 4d6+12+4 if he has a level of rougue tossed in, and gets his sneak attack: he adds 1d6 to this damage.
Donovan Morningfire 05-29-07, 10:31 AM	This is why, real world or DnD, you don't mess with the 300lb, rippling muscle, possibly psychotic guy carrying the big axe. Unless you're the 200lbs, definitely psychotic guy carrying a bazooka ;)