Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DietRichCola 04-18-07, 01:32 PM	I am having problems understanding the stats given for the Pseudodragon, both in the Monster Manual and the example given for the Improved Familiar feat. I need to get this sorted out because I want to give a member of the PC party the option to receive a pseudodragon as a familiar in the next session. Please help me with the following questions ---------- The MM lists these stats for a Pseudodragon as: Size: Tiny Base Attack/Grapple: +2/-8 Attack: Sting +4 melee (1d3-2 plus poison) Full Attack: Sting +4 melee (1d3-2 plus poison), bite -1 melee (1) Abilities: Str 6, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10 Feats: Weapon Finesse But, if I understand the rules correctly, shouldn't the attacks be: Sting +6 melee (+2 base, +2 size, +2 Dex [allowed by Weapon Finesse]) with damage of (1d3-2 plus poison) (with the -2 coming from the Str penalty) Bite +1 (+2 base, +2 size, +2 Dex, -5 secondary attack) melee with damage (1) ---------- The Familiar rules discussed in the PH says that for natural weapon attacks you use the master's base attack bonus + the familiar's Str or Dex bonus, whichever is higher. And it says the damage should be that of a normal animal of its type Now, under Improved Familiar in the DM guide, it lists the stats for a Pseudodragon familiar assuming the lowest level caster possible (listed as Caster level 7) with no multiclassing, ect... As such, a level 7 sorcerer/wizard has a base attack bonus of +3. It then lists the stats for a pseudodragon familiar (with modified abilities from that in the MM): Size: Tiny Base Attack/Grapple: +2/-8 Attack: Sting +4 melee (1d3-2 plus poison) Full Attack: Sting +4 melee (1d3-2 plus poison), bite +0 melee (1) Abilities: Str 11, Dex 11, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10 Again, following the rules for familiars, shouldn't these attacks actually be: Sting +5 melee (+3 master's base attack, +2 size, +0 Str) with damage of (1d3 plus poison) (now that pseudodragon's Str score is at 11, there should be no -2 penalty on the damage) Bite +0 melee (+3 master's base attack, +2 size, +0 Str, -5 secondary attack) with a damage of (1) ---------- If someone will either confirm my analysis, or tell me what part of the rules I am not understanding, that would be great. Because I'm just a bit confused about all this.
Edana 04-18-07, 02:13 PM	From the Improved familiar feat, I don't see any reason for the change in Str and Dex for the IF Pseudodragon. As far as I know they should stay the same, and the only real change should be the increase in BAB from being a familiar (basically increasing its attack by the +1 it gains, assuming minimum level caster) making its attacks +7/+2, with the printed damage values. As far as your analysis goes, it looks like you're correct. The actual bonuses should be +6 sting, +1 bite for a normal Pseudodragon. This is reflected in the online SRD at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/pseudodragon.htm, so I'm not sure if it was in errata or if they just fixed the math. (On further looking, some of the other online SRD's still have it at the +4/-1 values, and I can't find it in the official errata, so it's probably an uncorrected math error)
olshanski_home 04-18-07, 02:21 PM	According to Errata, you should consider the MM to be the primary source for monsters. The stat block for the Psuedodragon in the DMG is clearly in error (the STR score in particular). Also according to the Errata, the Psuedodragon gets Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, and Alertness as the typical replacement for the feat. A Pseudodragon for a 7th level wizard with "Improved Familiar" would have the following stat block: Size: Tiny Dragon Base Attack/Grapple: +3/-7 AC: 22 (+2 size, +2 Dex, +8 Natural) Attack: Sting +7 melee (1d3-2 plus poison) Full Attack: Sting +7 melee (1d3-2 plus poison), bite +2 melee (1-2) Abilities: Str 6, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10 Feats: Weapon Finesse (b), Alertness Sting attack (+3 BAB, +2 Finesse, +2 Size) Poison DC 16 (+2 racial, +3 HD, +1 Con)
Marcus Majarra 04-18-07, 02:44 PM	Three corrections for the above stat block: The pseudodragon familiar's natural armor bonus should be +8. A 7th-level wizard grants a +4 bonus to his familiar's natural armor. It's Int should be 9 instead of 10, as normal for a 7th-level wizard's familiar. The sting's attack bonus should be +7, even for a full attack.
tos_shai_hulud 04-18-07, 02:46 PM	For the full attack entry, is there a reason that the pseudodragon's Sting attack is +5 instead of +7, or was that a typo? Also, for the poison, is there a reason that it is getting +2 bonus from Con when it only has a 13 Con score?
tos_shai_hulud 04-18-07, 02:54 PM	Three corrections for the above stat block: The pseudodragon familiar's natural armor bonus should be +8. A 7th-level wizard grants a +4 bonus to his familiar's natural armor. It's Int should be 9 instead of 10, as normal for a 7th-level wizard's familiar. The sting's attack bonus should be +7, even for a full attack. I am not sure where I have seen it, but I am pretty sure that if the wizard's familiar has more intelligence than the chart would give it, it does not become stupider for being a familiar. I am pretty sure it would keep its 10 Intelligence. I am checking the FAQ now, because I think that is where I saw it.
tos_shai_hulud 04-18-07, 03:48 PM	I checked the FAQ, but I did not see it. I am not sure where I saw that guideline. I am pretty sure it is true, though. Edit: A familiar uses its own Intelligence score if it is higher than what its master's level allows. A familiar can benefit from spells and effects that boost Intelligence, such as the fox's cunning spell. As with any temporary Intelligence increase, the Intelligence enhancement does not give the familiar any extra skill points or languages, but the familiar uses its new, higher, Intelligence modifier for Intelligence checks and Intelligence-based skill checks.
olshanski_home 04-18-07, 04:56 PM	Stat block corrected. Full attack should have been +7, same as regular attack. Nat AC should have been +8... I updated AC but not Nat Armor. Poison should have been +1 Con, not +2 Con. I have no clue what I was doing when I wrote that post.
Marcus Majarra 04-18-07, 06:10 PM	Well, I guess the familiar retaining its Int must not have been an issue by early RAW, on account of all the basic familiars having animal intelligence, at best.
DietRichCola 04-18-07, 08:31 PM	Thank you all so much for your help. I no longer feel as if I'm crazy. I'm new to the game, and just when I thought I was starting to understand the rules, I run into problems like that. But now I feel much better. Thanks!
Marcus Majarra 04-18-07, 11:12 PM	My friend, no matter how much one thinks to know the game and its rules, one always runs into problems like that. And it's no surprise either. With the extensive rules base the game provides, not to mention expansions on it, it's impossible to remember every single detail. That's what these forums are there for, in part.