Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lilinthra 10-05-07, 10:13 AM	I've seen this ruled both ways in practice, but wanted a confirmation before a one-shot that I'm writing. Does normal psionics/magic transparency apply to skills as well? Meaning, would Psicraft and Spellcraft be interchangable and the same for Knowledge(arcana) and Knowledge(psionics). The SRD makes it look like they would not be, and the skill descriptions imply this as well at least for the latter pair. I could see someone using... say Spellcraft to identify an effects after manifesting, though.
heffroncm 10-05-07, 01:01 PM	I'd combine them. If Detect Magic can pick up Psionics, then Psionics are sufficiently like spells for Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana) to work. Basically, transparency in my mind is saying, "This is just another kind of magic, except we use Power Points instead of slots per day."
mvincent 10-05-07, 01:19 PM	I've seen this ruled both ways in practice, but wanted a confirmation before a one-shot that I'm writing. Does normal psionics/magic transparency apply to skills as well? Meaning, would Psicraft and Spellcraft be interchangable and the same for Knowledge(arcana) and Knowledge(psionics). The SRD makes it look like they would not be, and the skill descriptions imply this as well at least for the latter pair. I could see someone using... say Spellcraft to identify an effects after manifesting, though.The Psionics-Magic Transparency rules say: "The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura)." This implies that Psicraft and Spellcraft are still separate skills.
Kamin_Majere 10-05-07, 03:27 PM	I run all magic non-transparent.(arcane, psionic, and divine) I've always found WotC's half transparent systems to be a bit silly. I mean if a wizard can determine (with spell craft) the type and name of a spell that only a cleric can cast (and is an entirely diffrent form of magic that the wizard himself does not possess) then why not psionics? Either the various magics should be completely transparent or completely non-transparent. This half and half system they use just seems stupid
Mejdrich 10-07-07, 03:40 PM	Yea, I was wondering about this, too. In my game, we decided to add psionics as a third branch of magic. So, there is a separate knowledge skill for (psionic), just as knowledge (arcane) and (religion) are separate, but spellcraft and psicraft work the same, as spellcraft works with arcane and divine magic equally.
Kouk 10-07-07, 05:28 PM	I allow Spellcraft to work on Psionics, because I tend to not run Psionics-heavy campaigns, but I allow players to be psionicists if they want. I treat it as a "third form of magic". If I didn't combine the skills, then if there was say a Psion as the party's sole "magic" damage dealer, then he wouldn't know what enemy spellcasters were doing at all, and no NPC would know what the player was "casting". I also treat Knowledge(Psionics) as rolled into other skills as necessary, usually as Knowledge(Arcana). Due to similar reasons as above, I don't see a benefit to keeping them separate. There are just nowhere near the number of creatures or items with the Psionic descriptor as there are for the other kinds, and the way they actually appear or function varies drastically. For monsters, Psionic is a subtype that applies to nearly any kind of "normal" creature that can be identified with the standard Knowledge checks. For this reason I just use the "normal" Knowledge checks to identify the creature's main type, and fill the players in on their psionic abilities the same way I would for spell-like abilities (if they make a high enough check to learn things). Just by the normal Transparency rules though, it appears that Psicraft is still separate from Spellcraft, and Knowledge(Psionics) is still its own skill, as is Use Psionic Device I believe.
Sildatorak 10-09-07, 07:43 AM	By RAW, I think you're dealing with them being treated as different skills. I, however, roll UMD & UPD together and combine psicraft and spellcraft. I keep the knowledges seperate, though.
Keijii 10-17-07, 04:43 AM	By RAW, I think you're dealing with them being treated as different skills. I, however, roll UMD & UPD together and combine psicraft and spellcraft. I keep the knowledges seperate, though. I follow the same system. Since UMD & Spellcraft applies to both arcane and divine spells, it made sense to make psionics fall under it as well when transparency is used. But since Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (Arcana) is seperate, I kept the Knowledge (Psionics) unchanged.
JulesCARV 10-17-07, 04:55 AM	Well, psicraft is based on watching for displays, while spellcraft is based on watching for components, when looking at casting/manifesting at the moment. When dealing with auras and items, they deal with different schools and disciplines. They seem to me to be somewhat different skills.
Lilinthra 10-17-07, 09:01 AM	I ended up using them as separate skills, with the caveat that any spell that has a psionic equivalent (and vice versa) could be identified by either Spellcraft or Psicraft on the 20 + DC and 25 + DC identification checks. So Dimension Door and Psionic Dimension Door, for example, if you were able to see or detect the effects.