Qualifying for feats/PrC's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Qualifying for feats/PrC's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Drag0nUL
07-13-07, 01:35 PM Some feats/prestige classes require certain abilities, such as 13 Str for Power Attack or large size for hulking hurler. Many of these can be duplicated by spells/items; however I can't seem to find any rules regarding whether or not you can take those feats/classes if you meet the prerequisites via spells/magic items.

More specifically: I am looking to build a character that relies pretty heavily on the Stand Still feat(XPH) which requires 13 str; however I intend to keep my base str at 10. My question is: can I qualify for this feat if I use bull's strength/gauntlets of ogre power to raise my str to 14?
Karui_Kage
07-13-07, 02:02 PM I believe that's alright. You would just lose use of the feat whenever your gauntlets were off.
weasel0
07-13-07, 02:02 PM Yes you can qualify in the way. Just keep in mind that if you lose the magic effect, you lose the ability to use the feat even though you have it.

*shakes fist at karui_kage-- you and your nin-village will fall!!*
Kouk
07-13-07, 02:03 PM You can qualify for and takes feats that require certain ability scores by using magic items, but you can only use the feat (and all feats that require it as a prerequisite) while you wear the item.

If you took Power Attack and Cleave by relying on Gauntlets of Ogre Power to get the right amount of STR, you would lose the use of both of the feats if you for some reason took off the gloves. You can replace the gloves with another item that boosts your STR, and the feats will "return". You don't forget how to use the feat but you are barred from using it if you no longer meet the prerequisites.

I'm not even sure if you can use a temporary spell to qualify, but you would have to keep casting it or make it permanent; otherwise you would lose the feat every few minutes.
Drag0nUL
07-13-07, 02:09 PM I'm not even sure if you can use a temporary spell to qualify, but you would have to keep casting it or make it permanent; otherwise you would lose the feat every few minutes.
I intend to DMM persist Divine power+righteous might eventually so this would be just an temporary low level problem.

However, is there anything in the RAW referring to this specific circumstance?
Karui_Kage
07-13-07, 02:21 PM Yes you can qualify in the way. Just keep in mind that if you lose the magic effect, you lose the ability to use the feat even though you have it.

*shakes fist at karui_kage-- you and your nin-village will fall!!*

I'm in your thread, ninja-ing your posts.
Karui_Kage
07-13-07, 02:28 PM I intend to DMM persist Divine power+righteous might eventually so this would be just an temporary low level problem.

However, is there anything in the RAW referring to this specific circumstance?

To hold onto a feat, you must always maintain the prereqs. If you at any point lose any of the prereqs, you lose temporary usage of the feat until you meet the prereqs once more.

So if you used Bull's Strength to meet a feat (which I wouldn't allow, you'd have to know in character when you were going to 'level'), then you would lose use of it the instant the spell ran out.

If you were wearing a piece of gear that granted you the bonus, I'd say you could take the feat upon level up, but would lose use of it whenever you lost the gear, entered an anti-magic field, had it dispelled, etc.

Generally, it's not worth wasting a feat slot on an effect that can be easily taken away, but it's your call.
Drag0nUL
07-13-07, 02:59 PM If you were wearing a piece of gear that granted you the bonus, I'd say you could take the feat upon level up, but would lose use of it whenever you lost the gear, entered an anti-magic field, had it dispelled, etc.

Generally, it's not worth wasting a feat slot on an effect that can be easily taken away, but it's your call.

Normally I wouldn't either. But you see, this character is a caster/warrior that relies heavily on magic to augment his fighting powers (cleric 4/crusader 1/ RKV 10/cleric 5) so in most conditions that could cancel his str enhancing items (like AMF) he's going to be pretty screwed anyway, Stand Still or no Stand Still.
Karui_Kage
07-13-07, 04:18 PM Then it's your call, of course. If it's a known vulnerability, but a desired one, then by all means take it. :) I'm all for taking things that help build a character, so long as the player understands the things that could possibly take it away.
spikevampire
07-13-07, 06:26 PM can i ask something? i can meet the prerequisite for some classes if they need a giant size? can i use enlarge person?
Karui_Kage
07-13-07, 10:30 PM Do you mean Large size, or Huge? Either way, those are a bit sketchier. In terms of a prestige class, I'd say only if you got a permanent enlarge person on you. Of course, it's up to the DM. Some may say it needs to be a natural size.
spikevampire
07-14-07, 06:57 AM i mean large...thanks, so isn't a specific rule that explain this right? is a DM point of view?
Karui_Kage
07-14-07, 07:04 AM I imagine the specific rule would be that a magical effect could not be substituted for a requirement, and that the character would need to be a naturally large size. A DM might bypass this is you were magically enhanced to be permanently large, but it's up to the DM. I'm not sure of the official word on it.
spikevampire
07-14-07, 09:08 AM ok i understand so i played well so far in according to rules :D
but i want to say the mine point of view on this, if rules need a real natural possession of the requisite, the DM if he allow the magic effect it could allow both the permanent both the not permanent, because also the permanent magic effect, with a magic item or with permanency spell could be dispelled and the prerequisite are not mached more... i hope i was clear... i am italian but i am a good master, sorry for grammar mistake
Marcus Majarra
07-16-07, 12:59 PM You can qualify for and takes feats that require certain ability scores by using magic items, but you can only use the feat (and all feats that require it as a prerequisite) while you wear the item.
I disagree about the part in parentheses. What would be the point in indicating that Mobility requires that the character have Dex 13 and Dodge when Dodge already boasts the Dex requirement? Not being able to use a feat and not having the feat are two different things, IMHO. Even if you can't use a feat that you have, you can still qualify for other feats/classes/whatnot since you still have that requirement.

As it is, assuming otherwise leads to a panoply of other problems. For example, what happens to an archmage after he casts all his 7th-level or higher spells? Does he lose all his archmage abilities since he can no longer cast 7th-level spells?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drag0nUL 07-13-07, 01:35 PM	Some feats/prestige classes require certain abilities, such as 13 Str for Power Attack or large size for hulking hurler. Many of these can be duplicated by spells/items; however I can't seem to find any rules regarding whether or not you can take those feats/classes if you meet the prerequisites via spells/magic items. More specifically: I am looking to build a character that relies pretty heavily on the Stand Still feat(XPH) which requires 13 str; however I intend to keep my base str at 10. My question is: can I qualify for this feat if I use bull's strength/gauntlets of ogre power to raise my str to 14?
Karui_Kage 07-13-07, 02:02 PM	I believe that's alright. You would just lose use of the feat whenever your gauntlets were off.
weasel0 07-13-07, 02:02 PM	Yes you can qualify in the way. Just keep in mind that if you lose the magic effect, you lose the ability to use the feat even though you have it. shakes fist at karui_kage-- you and your nin-village will fall!!
Kouk 07-13-07, 02:03 PM	You can qualify for and takes feats that require certain ability scores by using magic items, but you can only use the feat (and all feats that require it as a prerequisite) while you wear the item. If you took Power Attack and Cleave by relying on Gauntlets of Ogre Power to get the right amount of STR, you would lose the use of both of the feats if you for some reason took off the gloves. You can replace the gloves with another item that boosts your STR, and the feats will "return". You don't forget how to use the feat but you are barred from using it if you no longer meet the prerequisites. I'm not even sure if you can use a temporary spell to qualify, but you would have to keep casting it or make it permanent; otherwise you would lose the feat every few minutes.
Drag0nUL 07-13-07, 02:09 PM	I'm not even sure if you can use a temporary spell to qualify, but you would have to keep casting it or make it permanent; otherwise you would lose the feat every few minutes. I intend to DMM persist Divine power+righteous might eventually so this would be just an temporary low level problem. However, is there anything in the RAW referring to this specific circumstance?
Karui_Kage 07-13-07, 02:21 PM	Yes you can qualify in the way. Just keep in mind that if you lose the magic effect, you lose the ability to use the feat even though you have it. shakes fist at karui_kage-- you and your nin-village will fall!! I'm in your thread, ninja-ing your posts.
Karui_Kage 07-13-07, 02:28 PM	I intend to DMM persist Divine power+righteous might eventually so this would be just an temporary low level problem. However, is there anything in the RAW referring to this specific circumstance? To hold onto a feat, you must always maintain the prereqs. If you at any point lose any of the prereqs, you lose temporary usage of the feat until you meet the prereqs once more. So if you used Bull's Strength to meet a feat (which I wouldn't allow, you'd have to know in character when you were going to 'level'), then you would lose use of it the instant the spell ran out. If you were wearing a piece of gear that granted you the bonus, I'd say you could take the feat upon level up, but would lose use of it whenever you lost the gear, entered an anti-magic field, had it dispelled, etc. Generally, it's not worth wasting a feat slot on an effect that can be easily taken away, but it's your call.
Drag0nUL 07-13-07, 02:59 PM	If you were wearing a piece of gear that granted you the bonus, I'd say you could take the feat upon level up, but would lose use of it whenever you lost the gear, entered an anti-magic field, had it dispelled, etc. Generally, it's not worth wasting a feat slot on an effect that can be easily taken away, but it's your call. Normally I wouldn't either. But you see, this character is a caster/warrior that relies heavily on magic to augment his fighting powers (cleric 4/crusader 1/ RKV 10/cleric 5) so in most conditions that could cancel his str enhancing items (like AMF) he's going to be pretty screwed anyway, Stand Still or no Stand Still.
Karui_Kage 07-13-07, 04:18 PM	Then it's your call, of course. If it's a known vulnerability, but a desired one, then by all means take it. :) I'm all for taking things that help build a character, so long as the player understands the things that could possibly take it away.
spikevampire 07-13-07, 06:26 PM	can i ask something? i can meet the prerequisite for some classes if they need a giant size? can i use enlarge person?
Karui_Kage 07-13-07, 10:30 PM	Do you mean Large size, or Huge? Either way, those are a bit sketchier. In terms of a prestige class, I'd say only if you got a permanent enlarge person on you. Of course, it's up to the DM. Some may say it needs to be a natural size.
spikevampire 07-14-07, 06:57 AM	i mean large...thanks, so isn't a specific rule that explain this right? is a DM point of view?
Karui_Kage 07-14-07, 07:04 AM	I imagine the specific rule would be that a magical effect could not be substituted for a requirement, and that the character would need to be a naturally large size. A DM might bypass this is you were magically enhanced to be permanently large, but it's up to the DM. I'm not sure of the official word on it.
spikevampire 07-14-07, 09:08 AM	ok i understand so i played well so far in according to rules :D but i want to say the mine point of view on this, if rules need a real natural possession of the requisite, the DM if he allow the magic effect it could allow both the permanent both the not permanent, because also the permanent magic effect, with a magic item or with permanency spell could be dispelled and the prerequisite are not mached more... i hope i was clear... i am italian but i am a good master, sorry for grammar mistake
Marcus Majarra 07-16-07, 12:59 PM	You can qualify for and takes feats that require certain ability scores by using magic items, but you can only use the feat (and all feats that require it as a prerequisite) while you wear the item. I disagree about the part in parentheses. What would be the point in indicating that Mobility requires that the character have Dex 13 and Dodge when Dodge already boasts the Dex requirement? Not being able to use a feat and not having the feat are two different things, IMHO. Even if you can't use a feat that you have, you can still qualify for other feats/classes/whatnot since you still have that requirement. As it is, assuming otherwise leads to a panoply of other problems. For example, what happens to an archmage after he casts all his 7th-level or higher spells? Does he lose all his archmage abilities since he can no longer cast 7th-level spells?