Question on CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Question on CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tos_shai_hulud
04-12-07, 01:55 PM I am thinking about introducing a main villain fairly early on in the campaign, but I am not sure how to go about it. The villain is a high level fallen paladin under the effects of a geas/quest spell that has driven him to madness. He has not slept a full night in quite some time and is exhausted. Do status conditions such as that affect the creature's CR? I am trying to give him enough status effects (like the shaken effect of going against his geas/quest) to make him easier to defeat, but there are no rules for how these status effects change the CR of an opponent (that I have seen).
Evil DM Mk3
04-12-07, 03:55 PM There are no rules that I know of, mostly because I think it would be very ad hock. There are rules however for "easier encounter xp change". Tese seem to be what you are looking for. No change in CR, but a change in xp.
Inigo Carmine
04-12-07, 04:00 PM They have no bearing on the CR. A creature's CR is a creature's CR.

What it does have a bearing on though, is the EL (Encounter Level). This falls under the conditions of the battle, like a group of archers on an elevated/difficult to reach perch as opposed to a group of archers stuck at the bottom of an easy to reach pit. The enemies are the same, but the encounters vary greatly in their difficulty.

There aren't really many guidelines on how to adjust EL for such situations, and it is really just up to the DM to do it.

I've tried similar things in the past, but what I ordinarily do is beef up the villain's defense while tanking his offense. This is a kind of surefire way to not end up with a TPK or with the PCs killing the villain immediately.

Example: The PCs happen upon the villain (an evil spellcaster) right after he has disposed of the leader of the Holy Order of Knights. Most of his defensive buffs are still active, but his best offensive spells have been spent. He still has some of his lower level spells though, and his multiple backup spells for getting away (teleport, Dimension Door, Flight, etc).

While I can't tell you how much you need to modify the EL by, you seem to be on the right track. Make it hard for your villain to kill the PCs, while at the same time making it very hard for your PCs to kill your villain. Also, allow your villain some non-contrived means of getting away as your PCs are likely to try following (and since fatigue prevents running, getting away on foot might not be possible).
tos_shai_hulud
04-12-07, 04:02 PM His flying mount was helpful in that respect.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tos_shai_hulud 04-12-07, 01:55 PM	I am thinking about introducing a main villain fairly early on in the campaign, but I am not sure how to go about it. The villain is a high level fallen paladin under the effects of a geas/quest spell that has driven him to madness. He has not slept a full night in quite some time and is exhausted. Do status conditions such as that affect the creature's CR? I am trying to give him enough status effects (like the shaken effect of going against his geas/quest) to make him easier to defeat, but there are no rules for how these status effects change the CR of an opponent (that I have seen).
Evil DM Mk3 04-12-07, 03:55 PM	There are no rules that I know of, mostly because I think it would be very ad hock. There are rules however for "easier encounter xp change". Tese seem to be what you are looking for. No change in CR, but a change in xp.
Inigo Carmine 04-12-07, 04:00 PM	They have no bearing on the CR. A creature's CR is a creature's CR. What it does have a bearing on though, is the EL (Encounter Level). This falls under the conditions of the battle, like a group of archers on an elevated/difficult to reach perch as opposed to a group of archers stuck at the bottom of an easy to reach pit. The enemies are the same, but the encounters vary greatly in their difficulty. There aren't really many guidelines on how to adjust EL for such situations, and it is really just up to the DM to do it. I've tried similar things in the past, but what I ordinarily do is beef up the villain's defense while tanking his offense. This is a kind of surefire way to not end up with a TPK or with the PCs killing the villain immediately. Example: The PCs happen upon the villain (an evil spellcaster) right after he has disposed of the leader of the Holy Order of Knights. Most of his defensive buffs are still active, but his best offensive spells have been spent. He still has some of his lower level spells though, and his multiple backup spells for getting away (teleport, Dimension Door, Flight, etc). While I can't tell you how much you need to modify the EL by, you seem to be on the right track. Make it hard for your villain to kill the PCs, while at the same time making it very hard for your PCs to kill your villain. Also, allow your villain some non-contrived means of getting away as your PCs are likely to try following (and since fatigue prevents running, getting away on foot might not be possible).
tos_shai_hulud 04-12-07, 04:02 PM	His flying mount was helpful in that respect.