Racial bonuses [Archive] - Wizards Community

Racial bonuses [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
stone_thecrows
10-20-07, 07:13 PM Can you choose to negate/ignore racial bonuses?

For example, a Dwarf has a +4 AC Racial bonus against Giants. Can a Dwarf choose not to have the +4 AC apply?

The bonus comes from the races ability to understand, and therefore better defend themselves, against the attacks of Giant type creatures. I think it would be reasonable for a Dwarf to choose not to take advantage of the ability if he/she didn't want to.
Salla
10-20-07, 08:50 PM I can't see any reason why he couldn't choose not to use that training, myself.
Myers
10-20-07, 08:54 PM sure perfectly allowable, I'd say dodge and dex bonus's are removable at will, why that would be wanted I have no remote idea.
stone_thecrows
10-21-07, 04:50 AM sure perfectly allowable, I'd say dodge and dex bonus's are removable at will, why that would be wanted I have no remote idea.

I have a Dwarf Fighter/Cleric that is using Karmic Strike and I know there is a Ogre that needs taking out and I want to get hit so I can get my AoO!
Tichrimo
10-22-07, 08:03 PM Um... Wouldn't the dwarf stand a better chance of winning the fight if he just used his regular attacks to kill the ogre? Intentionally soaking hits just to get an AoO seems kind of silly.
stone_thecrows
10-26-07, 08:50 AM Um... Wouldn't the dwarf stand a better chance of winning the fight if he just used his regular attacks to kill the ogre? Intentionally soaking hits just to get an AoO seems kind of silly.

No because if (its a fairly big if) all attacks are hits then Ogre hits me twice in a round and I hit him three times.

Dwarf Fighter 4/Cleric 1
HP 68
+7 (2d6+4)
AC 15
Lilinthra
10-26-07, 09:35 AM You realize Attack of Opportunities will not help you if it is attacking from outside of your reach, right?
Myers
10-26-07, 09:52 AM Yeah the flaws that I see with the plan are rather extreme.

A. Your trading a guaranteed hit in exchange for a potential hit.
B. in most cases the ogre probably has better damage.
C. The ogre does have reach on you, after the first time he may learn and take a 5' step back and hurt you from outside your reach.

If you have a greatsword perhaps C is irrelevant, but either way it seems a tad odd to want to trade say a 70% chance of doing 2d6+4 (random guess as I don't know your stats or weapon), in exchange for taking a guaranteed 2d8+7.

Tis your game and your character, but a bit odd of a strategy, but yeah as a DM I would definently allow if you want to get hit, there's no reason a dwarf couldn't chose not to try to dodge, or hell if a player was trying to get hit, I would allow him to reverse his dexterity bonus (IE a +2 AC for dex could optionally be a -2), by saying rather then trying to dodge your trying to get hit. Course all that is up to your DM.
Marcus Majarra
10-26-07, 11:06 AM Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit are actually quite useful. AC is overrated on all levels unless you keep it exceptionally high. As such, if you're going to get hit, you might as well capitalize on it.
Myers
10-26-07, 12:48 PM Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit are actually quite useful. AC is overrated on all levels unless you keep it exceptionally high. As such, if you're going to get hit, you might as well capitalize on it.

I agree with you 100%, wasn't bashing the feat at all. It's worth it as you will get hit regardless, but just strikes me as silly to be striving to get hit by something bigger and stronger just for the sake of using it.
Legdiwena
10-26-07, 05:10 PM Since AC represents a characters attempts to not get hit, I would think he could choose open himself up and take the hit on anything except a natural 1 if he wanted. Good candidate for Moradin's Halls, but doable. Though Moradin might be extremely ****** off at such suicidal actions.
br13
10-26-07, 06:39 PM Since AC represents a characters attempts to not get hit, I would think he could choose open himself up and take the hit on anything except a natural 1 if he wanted. Good candidate for Moradin's Halls, but doable. Though Moradin might be extremely ****** off at such suicidal actions.

I wouldn't agree that he can just let himself be hit.

AC represents something more than just your reflexes, it's a sum of your skills and protective gear. As such, it is completely logical to allow the dwarf not to use his training or even stand still and wait for the attack. However, his armor, ring of deflection (if he has one) would still protect him regardless of him not moving an inch. For the sake of this argument and d&d rules, I'd say the character can choose to be flat-footed any time he wants to.

Off-topic, Karmic Strike is a good feat, however (in my opinion only) the strategy suggested by the thread maker seems unreasonable at such low levels against a heavy-hitter.
stone_thecrows
10-28-07, 07:03 AM Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit are actually quite useful. AC is overrated on all levels unless you keep it exceptionally high. As such, if you're going to get hit, you might as well capitalize on it.

Thank you!

But to address others...

Myers & br13
Yes against a heavy hitter the Karmic strategy isn't optimized! The Intelligence of the creature is key as far as the 5ft. step goes, and this can cause problems. I'm going to invest in some Enlarge Potions to combat this problem.

If I choose to swap to a one-handed weapon and use my shield And use Combat expertise for 4 (my current bab) And use the racial bonus against the Ogre my AC would be 29. I think I'm getting hit regardless!

It is suppose to be a bit suicidal as far as from a role-playing point of view!

A little more info.
House Rules: Toughness gives 5hp, Dauntless gives 10hp (I took Dauntless!)

The main problem at low level is having so many stat points going into Con that my to hit is only currently +7 (4 bab, 2 Str & 1 magic weapon) I have a Amulet of Health +2 and a total Con of 20. Remember I need 14 Dex for 2 extra AoO/round And 13 Int for Combat Expertise so I'm a little stretched. My current Hit point total is 68 (pretty good for level 5 without any levels in Barbarian...yet!) I intend to multi-class Cleric and Barbarian levels from now on and leave just 4 levels of Fighter (I know its an odd build!!).
Next level I will take Divine Vigour and use my turns(I have 5/day [3+(-2 Cha)+4 from Extra Turning Feat{Undeath Domain}]) to gain an extra 12 hp's during combat (DM ruled that Divine Vigour would last at least one minute, even with a -2 Cha mod[nice DM!]) and then look towards maybe Extra Rage to combine the two for even more hit points (and much needed boost to Str) or maybe Improved Toughness...who knows!

Thanks for the advise/comments.
Legdiwena
10-28-07, 02:19 PM Shouldn't he be able to subtract the core 10 from ac since that doesn't come from armor?
calronmoonflower
10-28-07, 03:53 PM Even unmoving objects get the base 10 AC, though they get enough penalties to reduce it down to 1.
kuonji
11-04-07, 06:08 AM Vs. an AC of 29 a standard ogre will rarely hit. Perhaps you should consider fighting the creature first to see how easily it hits you, and if it's having a hard time fight it accordingly. Seems sort of odd to just assume you are going to be pummled.
stone_thecrows
11-05-07, 03:34 PM Vs. an AC of 29 a standard ogre will rarely hit. Perhaps you should consider fighting the creature first to see how easily it hits you, and if it's having a hard time fight it accordingly. Seems sort of odd to just assume you are going to be pummled.

Sorry, I didn't give the full picture of the encounter that I was involved in. The Ogre had a number of class levels and a set of combat tactics to use (Sunder etc.) but did have extremely high to-hit scores, especially for a level 5 party (most of which have lvl adjustments).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
stone_thecrows 10-20-07, 07:13 PM	Can you choose to negate/ignore racial bonuses? For example, a Dwarf has a +4 AC Racial bonus against Giants. Can a Dwarf choose not to have the +4 AC apply? The bonus comes from the races ability to understand, and therefore better defend themselves, against the attacks of Giant type creatures. I think it would be reasonable for a Dwarf to choose not to take advantage of the ability if he/she didn't want to.
Salla 10-20-07, 08:50 PM	I can't see any reason why he couldn't choose not to use that training, myself.
Myers 10-20-07, 08:54 PM	sure perfectly allowable, I'd say dodge and dex bonus's are removable at will, why that would be wanted I have no remote idea.
stone_thecrows 10-21-07, 04:50 AM	sure perfectly allowable, I'd say dodge and dex bonus's are removable at will, why that would be wanted I have no remote idea. I have a Dwarf Fighter/Cleric that is using Karmic Strike and I know there is a Ogre that needs taking out and I want to get hit so I can get my AoO!
Tichrimo 10-22-07, 08:03 PM	Um... Wouldn't the dwarf stand a better chance of winning the fight if he just used his regular attacks to kill the ogre? Intentionally soaking hits just to get an AoO seems kind of silly.
stone_thecrows 10-26-07, 08:50 AM	Um... Wouldn't the dwarf stand a better chance of winning the fight if he just used his regular attacks to kill the ogre? Intentionally soaking hits just to get an AoO seems kind of silly. No because if (its a fairly big if) all attacks are hits then Ogre hits me twice in a round and I hit him three times. Dwarf Fighter 4/Cleric 1 HP 68 +7 (2d6+4) AC 15
Lilinthra 10-26-07, 09:35 AM	You realize Attack of Opportunities will not help you if it is attacking from outside of your reach, right?
Myers 10-26-07, 09:52 AM	Yeah the flaws that I see with the plan are rather extreme. A. Your trading a guaranteed hit in exchange for a potential hit. B. in most cases the ogre probably has better damage. C. The ogre does have reach on you, after the first time he may learn and take a 5' step back and hurt you from outside your reach. If you have a greatsword perhaps C is irrelevant, but either way it seems a tad odd to want to trade say a 70% chance of doing 2d6+4 (random guess as I don't know your stats or weapon), in exchange for taking a guaranteed 2d8+7. Tis your game and your character, but a bit odd of a strategy, but yeah as a DM I would definently allow if you want to get hit, there's no reason a dwarf couldn't chose not to try to dodge, or hell if a player was trying to get hit, I would allow him to reverse his dexterity bonus (IE a +2 AC for dex could optionally be a -2), by saying rather then trying to dodge your trying to get hit. Course all that is up to your DM.
Marcus Majarra 10-26-07, 11:06 AM	Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit are actually quite useful. AC is overrated on all levels unless you keep it exceptionally high. As such, if you're going to get hit, you might as well capitalize on it.
Myers 10-26-07, 12:48 PM	Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit are actually quite useful. AC is overrated on all levels unless you keep it exceptionally high. As such, if you're going to get hit, you might as well capitalize on it. I agree with you 100%, wasn't bashing the feat at all. It's worth it as you will get hit regardless, but just strikes me as silly to be striving to get hit by something bigger and stronger just for the sake of using it.
Legdiwena 10-26-07, 05:10 PM	Since AC represents a characters attempts to not get hit, I would think he could choose open himself up and take the hit on anything except a natural 1 if he wanted. Good candidate for Moradin's Halls, but doable. Though Moradin might be extremely ****** off at such suicidal actions.
br13 10-26-07, 06:39 PM	Since AC represents a characters attempts to not get hit, I would think he could choose open himself up and take the hit on anything except a natural 1 if he wanted. Good candidate for Moradin's Halls, but doable. Though Moradin might be extremely ****** off at such suicidal actions. I wouldn't agree that he can just let himself be hit. AC represents something more than just your reflexes, it's a sum of your skills and protective gear. As such, it is completely logical to allow the dwarf not to use his training or even stand still and wait for the attack. However, his armor, ring of deflection (if he has one) would still protect him regardless of him not moving an inch. For the sake of this argument and d&d rules, I'd say the character can choose to be flat-footed any time he wants to. Off-topic, Karmic Strike is a good feat, however (in my opinion only) the strategy suggested by the thread maker seems unreasonable at such low levels against a heavy-hitter.
stone_thecrows 10-28-07, 07:03 AM	Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit are actually quite useful. AC is overrated on all levels unless you keep it exceptionally high. As such, if you're going to get hit, you might as well capitalize on it. Thank you! But to address others... Myers & br13 Yes against a heavy hitter the Karmic strategy isn't optimized! The Intelligence of the creature is key as far as the 5ft. step goes, and this can cause problems. I'm going to invest in some Enlarge Potions to combat this problem. If I choose to swap to a one-handed weapon and use my shield And use Combat expertise for 4 (my current bab) And use the racial bonus against the Ogre my AC would be 29. I think I'm getting hit regardless! It is suppose to be a bit suicidal as far as from a role-playing point of view! A little more info. House Rules: Toughness gives 5hp, Dauntless gives 10hp (I took Dauntless!) The main problem at low level is having so many stat points going into Con that my to hit is only currently +7 (4 bab, 2 Str & 1 magic weapon) I have a Amulet of Health +2 and a total Con of 20. Remember I need 14 Dex for 2 extra AoO/round And 13 Int for Combat Expertise so I'm a little stretched. My current Hit point total is 68 (pretty good for level 5 without any levels in Barbarian...yet!) I intend to multi-class Cleric and Barbarian levels from now on and leave just 4 levels of Fighter (I know its an odd build!!). Next level I will take Divine Vigour and use my turns(I have 5/day [3+(-2 Cha)+4 from Extra Turning Feat{Undeath Domain}]) to gain an extra 12 hp's during combat (DM ruled that Divine Vigour would last at least one minute, even with a -2 Cha mod[nice DM!]) and then look towards maybe Extra Rage to combine the two for even more hit points (and much needed boost to Str) or maybe Improved Toughness...who knows! Thanks for the advise/comments.
Legdiwena 10-28-07, 02:19 PM	Shouldn't he be able to subtract the core 10 from ac since that doesn't come from armor?
calronmoonflower 10-28-07, 03:53 PM	Even unmoving objects get the base 10 AC, though they get enough penalties to reduce it down to 1.
kuonji 11-04-07, 06:08 AM	Vs. an AC of 29 a standard ogre will rarely hit. Perhaps you should consider fighting the creature first to see how easily it hits you, and if it's having a hard time fight it accordingly. Seems sort of odd to just assume you are going to be pummled.
stone_thecrows 11-05-07, 03:34 PM	Vs. an AC of 29 a standard ogre will rarely hit. Perhaps you should consider fighting the creature first to see how easily it hits you, and if it's having a hard time fight it accordingly. Seems sort of odd to just assume you are going to be pummled. Sorry, I didn't give the full picture of the encounter that I was involved in. The Ogre had a number of class levels and a set of combat tactics to use (Sunder etc.) but did have extremely high to-hit scores, especially for a level 5 party (most of which have lvl adjustments).