Racial Climb Speed help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Racial Climb Speed help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ciryx2k
02-26-07, 03:23 PM Okay, if a race or monster has a racial climb speed, let's say 15 ft, what are they able to do?

I have always taken spiders and an example as to what that means, but now I'm not sure I was seeing correctly. According to what I've read lately, a creature with a climb speed gets a +8 on climb checks and can take 10 on them all the time. With a climb speed of 20 ft, and a climb modifier total of +11, that would indicate that a Med Monstrous Spider could take 10 and always get a 21, which is what they would usually do. However, with a climb check of 21, the whould be able to climb walls in a standard dungeon or ruins, but could not climb natural walls OR climb on the ceiling even if it had "hand holds" without acutally rolling and getting a 14 or better on the die. I know they can climb in there own web, so is this the only way they can be on the ceiling? This just seems a bit odd, because I've seen spiders in my house and they climb across our perfectly flat ceiling (a dc 100 climb check) without any problems. Some might say it's because of the size of the medium spider, so what about the tiny one? Spiders exist in our world that are of the size of the tiny spider (actually, hate to scare you, but in the amazon ones exist that would qualify as a small D&D creature) and these can climb across ceilings without webs. Are creatures with climb speeds able to do things like this even though they can't technically make the roll without rolling something like a 70 on a d20?
Lord Nedd
02-26-07, 03:43 PM Hmm. I have always interpreted that it means that they can climb at a rate of 20 feet per round as a single move action. The bonuses to climb etc are in case that they have to do something that would normally require a climb check, like fighting on a climbed surface, hussle, etc.

I would wait to hear from other folks as I am not certain of how correct I am.

-LN
Some_call_me_Tim
02-26-07, 06:38 PM Hmm. I have always interpreted that it means that they can climb at a rate of 20 feet per round as a single move action. The bonuses to climb etc are in case that they have to do something that would normally require a climb check, like fighting on a climbed surface, hussle, etc.I've generally seen it played as Nedd says. Although I believe rules-as-written requires a climb check for anything that +8 and take 10 can't beat.

Remember that DC 15 is "Any surface with adequate handholds and footholds (natural or artificial)." These handholds and footholds don't have to be human-sized. So for your tiny little spider a surface that appears smooth on a human scale could be very rough on a tiny spider scale.

I think most times when a creature (or PC) has a climb speed DMs just wave the roll, just as they would for walking across a room without a balance check.

I would like to hear from DMs who require climb checks for rogues with slippers of spider climb and what results they have had.
Lord Nedd
02-26-07, 07:06 PM I would like to hear from DMs who require climb checks for rogues with slippers of spider climb and what results they have had.

Who on earth would demand that?!?!

From the SRD, regarding Slippers of Spider Climb:

"When worn, a pair of these slippers enable movement on vertical surfaces or even upside down along ceilings, leaving the wearer’s hands free. Her speed is 20 feet. Severely slippery surfaces—icy, oiled, or greased surfaces— make these slippers useless. The slippers can be used for 10 minutes per day, split up as the wearer chooses."

Given that the slippers allow your hands to be free, and that it states that severely slippery surfaces automatically cause you to fail, I don't see any need for any climb rolls what so ever... In any situation. Either they work, or they don't. The description tells us when.
ciryx2k
02-26-07, 08:46 PM I can see where you're all coming from and completely agree, so I'll throw the real reason I'm asking this. The race in question gives the PC/NPC a 15 ft climb speed. This race is an elf variant. Would the elf be able to walk on the ceiling al la slipper of spider climbing style? If it doesn't, wouldn't that mean that a spider can't? If it can, isn't that a rather powerful racial ability since it basically gives them natural slippers of spider climbing? Having a racial ability that let's you auto-roll a 100 on your climb checks seems a bit much, but it wouldn't make sense for other things, like spiders, to NOT be able to do it.
Lord Nedd
02-26-07, 08:52 PM I can see where you're all coming from and completely agree, so I'll throw the real reason I'm asking this. The race in question gives the PC/NPC a 15 ft climb speed. This race is an elf variant. Would the elf be able to walk on the ceiling al la slipper of spider climbing style? If it doesn't, wouldn't that mean that a spider can't? If it can, isn't that a rather powerful racial ability since it basically gives them natural slippers of spider climbing? Having a racial ability that let's you auto-roll a 100 on your climb checks seems a bit much, but it wouldn't make sense for other things, like spiders, to NOT be able to do it.

He would be able to walk on the ceiling, provided that he or she has her hands available to climb. A spider uses all its limbs to walk on walls and so would the character, unless they they have slippers of spider climbing.

The slippers specifically allow you to walk without using your hands. The spell spider climb doesn't even do that.

If the walls are *special*, have him take the +8 bonus to climbing and watch him fall ... or try not to.

That is what I do with the Shifter variant that gives a climb speed.

-LN
Aminvelos
02-28-07, 01:57 AM The Worst Climb DC check is a 35

25 if your climbing on a cieling with hand holds but no foot holds and if its a say the underside of a cliff and its been raining -5 and lets just say you have a climbing race and want to move double the speed most dms will let u with another -5 since races with normal can double it.

Also I'd say no on the race thing

in the unaproachable east they have Mountain spirit folk

30 climb speed 8+ racial climb. Take 10 on any climb check

I believe what the rules are if your movement = your speed you get the 8+ racial climb, which is what was given.
ciryx2k
02-28-07, 02:34 AM The Worst Climb DC check is a 35

25 if your climbing on a cieling with hand holds but no foot holds and if its a say the underside of a cliff and its been raining -5 and lets just say you have a climbing race and want to move double the speed most dms will let u with another -5 since races with normal can double it.

Also I'd say no on the race thing

in the unaproachable east they have Mountain spirit folk

30 climb speed 8+ racial climb. Take 10 on any climb check

I believe what the rules are if your movement = your speed you get the 8+ racial climb, which is what was given.

The rules for climbing in the PHB only cover if you have hand holds. If you want to crawl across the ceiling of a stoneworked dungeon that has no hand holds, according to PHB it is impossible. Epic PHB gave rules stating that climbing a perfectly smooth wall is a DC 70 climb check and a perfectly smooth ceiling is a DC 100 climb check. This has been reprinted in the 3.5 SRD, so the rules have carried over from 3.0. Therefore, as you can see by the DC's, this would be impossible even for something like a spider unless the DM overrules. However, if I overrule that, I have set a precedent that creatures with racial climb speeds can ignore that. This would allow the guy to play a +1 LA race that lets him auto-roll 100's on climb checks. See my problem?
Aminvelos
02-28-07, 12:09 PM I was refering to not epic, I'll specify next time.
ciryx2k
02-28-07, 03:45 PM I was refering to not epic, I'll specify next time.

That's cool, no problem at all. I had figured that, but it basically leaves me with: A pre-epic character (and therefor a non-epic creature) can not climb a perfectly smooth ceiling or wall, but I had assumed a creature with a climb speed could. So I've either got to say that a tiny monstrous spider can't climb it, or the PC can. The former seems silly, since I know real life spiders, even ones the size of the monstrous spider, CAN do this. The latter seems overpowered.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ciryx2k 02-26-07, 03:23 PM	Okay, if a race or monster has a racial climb speed, let's say 15 ft, what are they able to do? I have always taken spiders and an example as to what that means, but now I'm not sure I was seeing correctly. According to what I've read lately, a creature with a climb speed gets a +8 on climb checks and can take 10 on them all the time. With a climb speed of 20 ft, and a climb modifier total of +11, that would indicate that a Med Monstrous Spider could take 10 and always get a 21, which is what they would usually do. However, with a climb check of 21, the whould be able to climb walls in a standard dungeon or ruins, but could not climb natural walls OR climb on the ceiling even if it had "hand holds" without acutally rolling and getting a 14 or better on the die. I know they can climb in there own web, so is this the only way they can be on the ceiling? This just seems a bit odd, because I've seen spiders in my house and they climb across our perfectly flat ceiling (a dc 100 climb check) without any problems. Some might say it's because of the size of the medium spider, so what about the tiny one? Spiders exist in our world that are of the size of the tiny spider (actually, hate to scare you, but in the amazon ones exist that would qualify as a small D&D creature) and these can climb across ceilings without webs. Are creatures with climb speeds able to do things like this even though they can't technically make the roll without rolling something like a 70 on a d20?
Lord Nedd 02-26-07, 03:43 PM	Hmm. I have always interpreted that it means that they can climb at a rate of 20 feet per round as a single move action. The bonuses to climb etc are in case that they have to do something that would normally require a climb check, like fighting on a climbed surface, hussle, etc. I would wait to hear from other folks as I am not certain of how correct I am. -LN
Some_call_me_Tim 02-26-07, 06:38 PM	Hmm. I have always interpreted that it means that they can climb at a rate of 20 feet per round as a single move action. The bonuses to climb etc are in case that they have to do something that would normally require a climb check, like fighting on a climbed surface, hussle, etc.I've generally seen it played as Nedd says. Although I believe rules-as-written requires a climb check for anything that +8 and take 10 can't beat. Remember that DC 15 is "Any surface with adequate handholds and footholds (natural or artificial)." These handholds and footholds don't have to be human-sized. So for your tiny little spider a surface that appears smooth on a human scale could be very rough on a tiny spider scale. I think most times when a creature (or PC) has a climb speed DMs just wave the roll, just as they would for walking across a room without a balance check. I would like to hear from DMs who require climb checks for rogues with slippers of spider climb and what results they have had.
Lord Nedd 02-26-07, 07:06 PM	I would like to hear from DMs who require climb checks for rogues with slippers of spider climb and what results they have had. Who on earth would demand that?!?! From the SRD, regarding Slippers of Spider Climb: "When worn, a pair of these slippers enable movement on vertical surfaces or even upside down along ceilings, leaving the wearer’s hands free. Her speed is 20 feet. Severely slippery surfaces—icy, oiled, or greased surfaces— make these slippers useless. The slippers can be used for 10 minutes per day, split up as the wearer chooses." Given that the slippers allow your hands to be free, and that it states that severely slippery surfaces automatically cause you to fail, I don't see any need for any climb rolls what so ever... In any situation. Either they work, or they don't. The description tells us when.
ciryx2k 02-26-07, 08:46 PM	I can see where you're all coming from and completely agree, so I'll throw the real reason I'm asking this. The race in question gives the PC/NPC a 15 ft climb speed. This race is an elf variant. Would the elf be able to walk on the ceiling al la slipper of spider climbing style? If it doesn't, wouldn't that mean that a spider can't? If it can, isn't that a rather powerful racial ability since it basically gives them natural slippers of spider climbing? Having a racial ability that let's you auto-roll a 100 on your climb checks seems a bit much, but it wouldn't make sense for other things, like spiders, to NOT be able to do it.
Lord Nedd 02-26-07, 08:52 PM	I can see where you're all coming from and completely agree, so I'll throw the real reason I'm asking this. The race in question gives the PC/NPC a 15 ft climb speed. This race is an elf variant. Would the elf be able to walk on the ceiling al la slipper of spider climbing style? If it doesn't, wouldn't that mean that a spider can't? If it can, isn't that a rather powerful racial ability since it basically gives them natural slippers of spider climbing? Having a racial ability that let's you auto-roll a 100 on your climb checks seems a bit much, but it wouldn't make sense for other things, like spiders, to NOT be able to do it. He would be able to walk on the ceiling, provided that he or she has her hands available to climb. A spider uses all its limbs to walk on walls and so would the character, unless they they have slippers of spider climbing. The slippers specifically allow you to walk without using your hands. The spell spider climb doesn't even do that. If the walls are special, have him take the +8 bonus to climbing and watch him fall ... or try not to. That is what I do with the Shifter variant that gives a climb speed. -LN
Aminvelos 02-28-07, 01:57 AM	The Worst Climb DC check is a 35 25 if your climbing on a cieling with hand holds but no foot holds and if its a say the underside of a cliff and its been raining -5 and lets just say you have a climbing race and want to move double the speed most dms will let u with another -5 since races with normal can double it. Also I'd say no on the race thing in the unaproachable east they have Mountain spirit folk 30 climb speed 8+ racial climb. Take 10 on any climb check I believe what the rules are if your movement = your speed you get the 8+ racial climb, which is what was given.
ciryx2k 02-28-07, 02:34 AM	The Worst Climb DC check is a 35 25 if your climbing on a cieling with hand holds but no foot holds and if its a say the underside of a cliff and its been raining -5 and lets just say you have a climbing race and want to move double the speed most dms will let u with another -5 since races with normal can double it. Also I'd say no on the race thing in the unaproachable east they have Mountain spirit folk 30 climb speed 8+ racial climb. Take 10 on any climb check I believe what the rules are if your movement = your speed you get the 8+ racial climb, which is what was given. The rules for climbing in the PHB only cover if you have hand holds. If you want to crawl across the ceiling of a stoneworked dungeon that has no hand holds, according to PHB it is impossible. Epic PHB gave rules stating that climbing a perfectly smooth wall is a DC 70 climb check and a perfectly smooth ceiling is a DC 100 climb check. This has been reprinted in the 3.5 SRD, so the rules have carried over from 3.0. Therefore, as you can see by the DC's, this would be impossible even for something like a spider unless the DM overrules. However, if I overrule that, I have set a precedent that creatures with racial climb speeds can ignore that. This would allow the guy to play a +1 LA race that lets him auto-roll 100's on climb checks. See my problem?
Aminvelos 02-28-07, 12:09 PM	I was refering to not epic, I'll specify next time.
ciryx2k 02-28-07, 03:45 PM	I was refering to not epic, I'll specify next time. That's cool, no problem at all. I had figured that, but it basically leaves me with: A pre-epic character (and therefor a non-epic creature) can not climb a perfectly smooth ceiling or wall, but I had assumed a creature with a climb speed could. So I've either got to say that a tiny monstrous spider can't climb it, or the PC can. The former seems silly, since I know real life spiders, even ones the size of the monstrous spider, CAN do this. The latter seems overpowered.