Ranged Weapon Magic Properties [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ranged Weapon Magic Properties [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fractal
03-09-08, 03:35 AM I've got a couple questions that have come up in my group, regarding magic special abilities for ranged weapons.

Some players would like to be able to place abilities like Spell Storing and Wounding on bows, to use with ranged attacks. Spell Storing and Wounding aren't listed as ranged abilities on the random ranged weapon generation table, but then, they also don't say that they can't be used on ranged weapons (unlike Throwing or Vicious). Can it be done?

Also, a question has been raised about whether or not it is possible to stack multiple copies of the same ability on a weapon, such as Flaming or Wounding. I sure thought that it wasn't possible, but I haven't been able to find it in the rules anywhere (other than a note in the table saying to reroll if you randomly generate an item with a duplicate property).
Kouk
03-09-08, 06:45 AM If it isn't ascribed to a ranged weapon as per the ranged weapon magical properties list then you can't add it without the DM overriding.

I would point out though, that the likely reason that Wounding and Spell Storing are not allowed on Ranged weapons by default it the relative impunity with which a character could use those abilities.

Here is a weak example: Let's say the party is hunting a Giant. They hunt him down and spot him 400 feet away, using Spot checks, animal companions/familiars etc. The Ranger takes aim with this +1 Seeking Distance Wounding Composite Longbow. He uses Rapid Shot, and gets roughly 20-30 shots against an opponent who chooses to close the distance, and kills him with Con damage because Wounding stacks.

The Ranger solos the creature, or else the creature dives for cover and the party has to go run after him.

Now, that isn't so bad, but what happens when the Ranger uses Wings of Flying. That's a problem huh?

As for the Spell Storing property, there is a similar argument though it can be much more complicated than that. You put Spell Storing on a sword, and fill it with Shocking Grasp, no problem. You do extra damage.

You put Spell Storing on a Composite Longbow and fill it with Shocking Grasp, now Shocking Grasp has a much greater range than normal.

Not to mention that Spell Storing bows would negate the main appeal of the Arcane Archer prestige class.

Either of these enchantments on a ranged weapon with significant range allows the attacker to attack with near impunity using those powerful abilities. That sort of stuff is really the province of spellcasting in this edition of D&D. Allow it at your own risk.
Kouk
03-09-08, 06:55 AM Generally the game does not allow multiples of the same ability, as you noted that you can't find those randomly.

For balance reasons, you should consider disallowing multiples of the same abilities, with a slight exception for Energy types.

Following the logic in the Magic Item Compendium, if a weapon is Flaming (+1d6 fire on a hit) putting Flaming on it again results in a Flaming Burst weapon. Putting on a third time should not be allowed I feel.

Consider if you allow a player to make a +1 Flaming Flaming Flaming Flaming Greatsword. It would deal +4d6 fire damage from the multiple copies of the same enchantment. Against certain monsters, this is awesome (such as those with the Cold subtype who take extra damage from Fire). However, against certain other creatures, that weapon is now nearly useless or counterproductive (consider creatures with the Fire subtype who are immune to fire damage, or Iron Golems who are healed by it).

This means you have to limit the creatures the PCs fight so that the fights aren't too one-sided.

On the other hand, if you stick to "no multiples" then you would have something like a +1 Flaming Shock Frost Corrosive Greatsword. It still does +4d6 energy damage, but of all different types. This way it is likely that at least 3d6 of it will always be useful (considering all the money poured into this weapon) but not exceptionally powerful or weak.

And it would be utterly horrible to have a Hasted TWF character armed with a pair of Wounding Wounding Wounding shortswords.
fractal
03-09-08, 06:53 PM Generally the game does not allow multiples of the same ability, as you noted that you can't find those randomly.

For balance reasons, you should consider disallowing multiples of the same abilities, with a slight exception for Energy types.
Well, unfortunately, we try to decide on rules issues by the books, or, failing that, majority vote/whoever whines the most. I'm relatively new to the group, and don't get to rule by fiat. That's why I was hoping it was explicitly stated in the rules someplace.
And it would be utterly horrible to have a Hasted TWF character armed with a pair of Wounding Wounding Wounding shortswords.
Yes, that's kind of how I felt, which is why I was hoping there was a specific rule against it.
mvincent
03-10-08, 12:37 PM Spell Storing and Wounding aren't listed as ranged abilities on the random ranged weapon generation tableThat technically doesn't prohibit it. However, neither ability says that "Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the ability upon their ammunition" (which is a standard for in other descriptions).

Can it be done?Ask your DM. Strict RAW technically doesn't allow it to work, but it's not unbalancing or unreasonable (as opposed to spell-storing on ammunition, which can definitely be unbalancing).

a question has been raised about whether or not it is possible to stack multiple copies of the same ability on a weapon, such as Flaming or Wounding.It's been discussed at length (links to long threads available on request). Basically, RAW is subject to some debate, but it's definitely against RAI (and allowing it would make things like burst and Epic blast weapons a waste of money). But again, a DM could certainly overrule this if desired (and some have).
fractal
03-13-08, 02:26 AM That technically doesn't prohibit it. However, neither ability says that "Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the ability upon their ammunition" (which is a standard for in other descriptions).

Ask your DM. Strict RAW technically doesn't allow it to work, but it's not unbalancing or unreasonable (as opposed to spell-storing on ammunition, which can definitely be unbalancing).

It's been discussed at length (links to long threads available on request). Basically, RAW is subject to some debate, but it's definitely against RAI (and allowing it would make things like burst and Epic blast weapons a waste of money). But again, a DM could certainly overrule this if desired (and some have).
Thanks. At least I know I'm not missing important rules now.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fractal 03-09-08, 03:35 AM	I've got a couple questions that have come up in my group, regarding magic special abilities for ranged weapons. Some players would like to be able to place abilities like Spell Storing and Wounding on bows, to use with ranged attacks. Spell Storing and Wounding aren't listed as ranged abilities on the random ranged weapon generation table, but then, they also don't say that they can't be used on ranged weapons (unlike Throwing or Vicious). Can it be done? Also, a question has been raised about whether or not it is possible to stack multiple copies of the same ability on a weapon, such as Flaming or Wounding. I sure thought that it wasn't possible, but I haven't been able to find it in the rules anywhere (other than a note in the table saying to reroll if you randomly generate an item with a duplicate property).
Kouk 03-09-08, 06:45 AM	If it isn't ascribed to a ranged weapon as per the ranged weapon magical properties list then you can't add it without the DM overriding. I would point out though, that the likely reason that Wounding and Spell Storing are not allowed on Ranged weapons by default it the relative impunity with which a character could use those abilities. Here is a weak example: Let's say the party is hunting a Giant. They hunt him down and spot him 400 feet away, using Spot checks, animal companions/familiars etc. The Ranger takes aim with this +1 Seeking Distance Wounding Composite Longbow. He uses Rapid Shot, and gets roughly 20-30 shots against an opponent who chooses to close the distance, and kills him with Con damage because Wounding stacks. The Ranger solos the creature, or else the creature dives for cover and the party has to go run after him. Now, that isn't so bad, but what happens when the Ranger uses Wings of Flying. That's a problem huh? As for the Spell Storing property, there is a similar argument though it can be much more complicated than that. You put Spell Storing on a sword, and fill it with Shocking Grasp, no problem. You do extra damage. You put Spell Storing on a Composite Longbow and fill it with Shocking Grasp, now Shocking Grasp has a much greater range than normal. Not to mention that Spell Storing bows would negate the main appeal of the Arcane Archer prestige class. Either of these enchantments on a ranged weapon with significant range allows the attacker to attack with near impunity using those powerful abilities. That sort of stuff is really the province of spellcasting in this edition of D&D. Allow it at your own risk.
Kouk 03-09-08, 06:55 AM	Generally the game does not allow multiples of the same ability, as you noted that you can't find those randomly. For balance reasons, you should consider disallowing multiples of the same abilities, with a slight exception for Energy types. Following the logic in the Magic Item Compendium, if a weapon is Flaming (+1d6 fire on a hit) putting Flaming on it again results in a Flaming Burst weapon. Putting on a third time should not be allowed I feel. Consider if you allow a player to make a +1 Flaming Flaming Flaming Flaming Greatsword. It would deal +4d6 fire damage from the multiple copies of the same enchantment. Against certain monsters, this is awesome (such as those with the Cold subtype who take extra damage from Fire). However, against certain other creatures, that weapon is now nearly useless or counterproductive (consider creatures with the Fire subtype who are immune to fire damage, or Iron Golems who are healed by it). This means you have to limit the creatures the PCs fight so that the fights aren't too one-sided. On the other hand, if you stick to "no multiples" then you would have something like a +1 Flaming Shock Frost Corrosive Greatsword. It still does +4d6 energy damage, but of all different types. This way it is likely that at least 3d6 of it will always be useful (considering all the money poured into this weapon) but not exceptionally powerful or weak. And it would be utterly horrible to have a Hasted TWF character armed with a pair of Wounding Wounding Wounding shortswords.
fractal 03-09-08, 06:53 PM	Generally the game does not allow multiples of the same ability, as you noted that you can't find those randomly. For balance reasons, you should consider disallowing multiples of the same abilities, with a slight exception for Energy types. Well, unfortunately, we try to decide on rules issues by the books, or, failing that, majority vote/whoever whines the most. I'm relatively new to the group, and don't get to rule by fiat. That's why I was hoping it was explicitly stated in the rules someplace. And it would be utterly horrible to have a Hasted TWF character armed with a pair of Wounding Wounding Wounding shortswords. Yes, that's kind of how I felt, which is why I was hoping there was a specific rule against it.
mvincent 03-10-08, 12:37 PM	Spell Storing and Wounding aren't listed as ranged abilities on the random ranged weapon generation tableThat technically doesn't prohibit it. However, neither ability says that "Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the ability upon their ammunition" (which is a standard for in other descriptions). Can it be done?Ask your DM. Strict RAW technically doesn't allow it to work, but it's not unbalancing or unreasonable (as opposed to spell-storing on ammunition, which can definitely be unbalancing). a question has been raised about whether or not it is possible to stack multiple copies of the same ability on a weapon, such as Flaming or Wounding.It's been discussed at length (links to long threads available on request). Basically, RAW is subject to some debate, but it's definitely against RAI (and allowing it would make things like burst and Epic blast weapons a waste of money). But again, a DM could certainly overrule this if desired (and some have).
fractal 03-13-08, 02:26 AM	That technically doesn't prohibit it. However, neither ability says that "Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the ability upon their ammunition" (which is a standard for in other descriptions). Ask your DM. Strict RAW technically doesn't allow it to work, but it's not unbalancing or unreasonable (as opposed to spell-storing on ammunition, which can definitely be unbalancing). It's been discussed at length (links to long threads available on request). Basically, RAW is subject to some debate, but it's definitely against RAI (and allowing it would make things like burst and Epic blast weapons a waste of money). But again, a DM could certainly overrule this if desired (and some have). Thanks. At least I know I'm not missing important rules now.