ranged weapon through friendly occupied square [Archive] - Wizards Community

ranged weapon through friendly occupied square [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
invisble1
03-10-08, 02:08 PM this has come up a few times. can a friendly fire through a friendly occupied square on the grid? (ignoring the combat modifiers) simply can it be done?
mvincent
03-10-08, 03:17 PM this has come up a few times. can a friendly fire through a friendly occupied square on the grid? (ignoring the combat modifiers) simply can it be done?Yup (normal soft cover)
TwiddleStootch
03-10-08, 04:39 PM Cover

To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).

Cover and Reflex Saves

Cover grants you a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against attacks that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover from you. Note that spread effects can extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus.
Cover and Hide Checks

You can use cover to make a Hide check. Without cover, you usually need concealment to make a Hide check.

Soft Cover

Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check.

Emphasis mine.
Lord_Varos
03-10-08, 05:06 PM To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).

From the SRD.
GoBackToRussia
03-11-08, 10:04 AM Were there ever any rules on the chances of hitting the cover (and in this case your companions)?

I'm not a big fan of my players being able to fire into combat - I know they can, just that there aren't any risks involved other than missing
Kouk
03-11-08, 11:21 AM Were there ever any rules on the chances of hitting the cover (and in this case your companions)?

I'm not a big fan of my players being able to fire into combat - I know they can, just that there aren't any risks involved other than missing

Were there? Maybe. The only thing like that in 3.X is that when firing a ranged weapon into a Grapple there is a chance you might hit either target. This is not clearly stated in the rulebooks, but appears on one of the combat modifiers charts.

Otherwise, no. It is somehow less "heroic" to shoot your friends constantly, and reduces the desirability of an archer in the party. Not to mention Rays.:eek:

You take the -4 into melee (without Precise Shot) because you are presumably being extra careful trying to not hit your friends more than you are trying to hit your enemies. Maybe allow players to negate the -4 penalty for firing into melee if they are willing to risk hitting their friends.
mvincent
03-11-08, 12:12 PM Were there ever any rules on the chances of hitting the coverYes. 3.0 had the following section:
"Striking the Cover Instead of a Missed Target
If it ever becomes important to know whether the cover was actually struck by an incoming attack that misses the intended target, the DM should determine if the attack roll would have hit the protected target without the cover. If the attack roll falls within a range low enough to miss the target with cover but high enough to strike the target if there had been no cover, the object used for cover was struck. This can be particularly important to know in cases where a character uses another character as cover. In such a case, if the cover is struck and the attack roll exceeds the AC of the covering character, the covering character takes the damage intended for the target.
If the covering character has a Dexterity bonus to AC or a dodge bonus, and this bonus keeps the covering character from being hit, then the original target is hit instead. The covering character has dodged out of the way and didn't provide cover after all. A covering character can choose not to apply his Dexterity bonus to AC and/or his dodge bonus, if his intent is to try to take the damage in order to keep the covered character from being hit. "

This was removed from 3.5 (thankfully, imho).
Cartigan
03-11-08, 04:39 PM That's pointlessly complex. - too many numbers and variables to worry with. It's one of those cases where it is better to favor "heroic abstraction" over "realism."
GoBackToRussia
03-12-08, 07:44 AM I can see why it was removed - it can be bad enough remembering all the mods in a normal combat (never played 3.0), especially when you get as old as we are...:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
invisble1 03-10-08, 02:08 PM	this has come up a few times. can a friendly fire through a friendly occupied square on the grid? (ignoring the combat modifiers) simply can it be done?
mvincent 03-10-08, 03:17 PM	this has come up a few times. can a friendly fire through a friendly occupied square on the grid? (ignoring the combat modifiers) simply can it be done?Yup (normal soft cover)
TwiddleStootch 03-10-08, 04:39 PM	Cover To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC). Cover and Reflex Saves Cover grants you a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against attacks that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover from you. Note that spread effects can extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus. Cover and Hide Checks You can use cover to make a Hide check. Without cover, you usually need concealment to make a Hide check. Soft Cover Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check. Emphasis mine.
Lord_Varos 03-10-08, 05:06 PM	To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC). From the SRD.
GoBackToRussia 03-11-08, 10:04 AM	Were there ever any rules on the chances of hitting the cover (and in this case your companions)? I'm not a big fan of my players being able to fire into combat - I know they can, just that there aren't any risks involved other than missing
Kouk 03-11-08, 11:21 AM	Were there ever any rules on the chances of hitting the cover (and in this case your companions)? I'm not a big fan of my players being able to fire into combat - I know they can, just that there aren't any risks involved other than missing Were there? Maybe. The only thing like that in 3.X is that when firing a ranged weapon into a Grapple there is a chance you might hit either target. This is not clearly stated in the rulebooks, but appears on one of the combat modifiers charts. Otherwise, no. It is somehow less "heroic" to shoot your friends constantly, and reduces the desirability of an archer in the party. Not to mention Rays.:eek: You take the -4 into melee (without Precise Shot) because you are presumably being extra careful trying to not hit your friends more than you are trying to hit your enemies. Maybe allow players to negate the -4 penalty for firing into melee if they are willing to risk hitting their friends.
mvincent 03-11-08, 12:12 PM	Were there ever any rules on the chances of hitting the coverYes. 3.0 had the following section: "Striking the Cover Instead of a Missed Target If it ever becomes important to know whether the cover was actually struck by an incoming attack that misses the intended target, the DM should determine if the attack roll would have hit the protected target without the cover. If the attack roll falls within a range low enough to miss the target with cover but high enough to strike the target if there had been no cover, the object used for cover was struck. This can be particularly important to know in cases where a character uses another character as cover. In such a case, if the cover is struck and the attack roll exceeds the AC of the covering character, the covering character takes the damage intended for the target. If the covering character has a Dexterity bonus to AC or a dodge bonus, and this bonus keeps the covering character from being hit, then the original target is hit instead. The covering character has dodged out of the way and didn't provide cover after all. A covering character can choose not to apply his Dexterity bonus to AC and/or his dodge bonus, if his intent is to try to take the damage in order to keep the covered character from being hit. " This was removed from 3.5 (thankfully, imho).
Cartigan 03-11-08, 04:39 PM	That's pointlessly complex. - too many numbers and variables to worry with. It's one of those cases where it is better to favor "heroic abstraction" over "realism."
GoBackToRussia 03-12-08, 07:44 AM	I can see why it was removed - it can be bad enough remembering all the mods in a normal combat (never played 3.0), especially when you get as old as we are...:)