Reasonable Magic Enhancement: Keen Confirmation? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Reasonable Magic Enhancement: Keen Confirmation? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheKingOfAmn
08-20-07, 04:15 PM I don't know if this already exists, but since Keen is a +1 enhancement that doubles the crit range of a weapon, would a +2 weapon enhancement that doubled the double crit range (19-20 instead of 20) on a confirmation roll be reasonable?
Marcus Majarra
08-20-07, 04:22 PM Why would you need to double the threat range for a confirmation roll? To confirm a critical hit, you only need to hit the opponent's AC on the confirmation roll; that's all.
TheKingOfAmn
08-20-07, 04:43 PM right, but if you roll a natural 20 on a confirmation roll, you threaten a double crit. i'm talking about an enhancement that would make a roll of a 19-20 a autoconfirmation of the crit and a possible double crit
Marcus Majarra
08-20-07, 05:59 PM right, but if you roll a natural 20 on a confirmation roll, you threaten a double crit. i'm talking about an enhancement that would make a roll of a 19-20 a autoconfirmation of the crit and a possible double crit
From a RAW point of view, there's no such thing as a double critical. You should take this query to the House Rule forum.
Kouk
08-20-07, 07:15 PM right, but if you roll a natural 20 on a confirmation roll, you threaten a double crit. i'm talking about an enhancement that would make a roll of a 19-20 a autoconfirmation of the crit and a possible double crit

Normally, when you threaten a critical hit, you then have to confirm it by rolling high enough to hit the target's AC, you don't have to roll a critical threat again.

If you have a Longsword with a 19-20/x2 range, and you roll a 20 against a low level goblin, that threatens. If your confirmation roll is only a 15, you probably still make the critical hit (unless he has an AC higher than 15 plus your attack bonus) and so you deal double damage.

There is no such thing in the core rules as a "double crit", though there are houserules to the effect that if you roll a 20 multiple times, you instantly kill an enemy or just do more damage than the normal crits.

I believe there is an enchantment that gives you a +4 bonus or so on your critical confirmation rolls, and there is also a feat that gives a +4 on confirmation rolls.

That way, if you roll poorly on your confirmation roll, you still have a chance of succeeding in landing the crit.
StevenO
08-20-07, 07:40 PM It sound like you are looking for an ability that could increase the effective critical multiplier in some cases. Another possible way to look at is to get an immediate follow up attack if your confirmation of a criticial would also threaten a critical.

There are very few class features that could increase a critical multiplier so I'd definitely rule anything like that out. The problem with increasing the multiplier (even if it is only occasionally) is because it really rewards weapons with a high threat range; they threaten crits far more often so moving a 17-20/x2 to 17-20/x3 is about four times the damage potential a weapon would get from going 20/x4 to 20/x5.
weasel0
08-21-07, 01:25 PM The triple 20 auto-kill is a varient rule in the DMG and thusly, is RAW.
StevenO
08-21-07, 03:10 PM The triple 20 auto-kill is a varient rule in the DMG and thusly, is RAW.
And provided the DM uses it for all the monsters will usually kill more players than monsters.
weasel0
08-21-07, 05:56 PM Well, gee, 20 mobs per session, 4-6players per session.... ya think? I didn't make any claims to whether it had a balanced nature nor to whether or not I was condoning it. I was merely pointing out that as it is in the DMG, it is in fact RAW.

We play with a slightly less deadly home-brew. In one campain, the same poor guy died 2x to our brew. Though statistically it would only be one in eight thousand. Of course, no matter how you look at it, the players always leave a bigger body count than all the mobs in a campain put together.
Karui_Kage
08-21-07, 07:53 PM Technically, any variant rule should be a VRAW, and not RAW.
goawayugh
08-24-07, 02:25 PM I have been playing with this variant for about 4 years now. It has happened probably less than 5 times total. I have only killed 1 PC with it.

Plus, iirc, it is only TWO natural 20's followed by a normal confirmation roll for insta-kill.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheKingOfAmn 08-20-07, 04:15 PM	I don't know if this already exists, but since Keen is a +1 enhancement that doubles the crit range of a weapon, would a +2 weapon enhancement that doubled the double crit range (19-20 instead of 20) on a confirmation roll be reasonable?
Marcus Majarra 08-20-07, 04:22 PM	Why would you need to double the threat range for a confirmation roll? To confirm a critical hit, you only need to hit the opponent's AC on the confirmation roll; that's all.
TheKingOfAmn 08-20-07, 04:43 PM	right, but if you roll a natural 20 on a confirmation roll, you threaten a double crit. i'm talking about an enhancement that would make a roll of a 19-20 a autoconfirmation of the crit and a possible double crit
Marcus Majarra 08-20-07, 05:59 PM	right, but if you roll a natural 20 on a confirmation roll, you threaten a double crit. i'm talking about an enhancement that would make a roll of a 19-20 a autoconfirmation of the crit and a possible double crit From a RAW point of view, there's no such thing as a double critical. You should take this query to the House Rule forum.
Kouk 08-20-07, 07:15 PM	right, but if you roll a natural 20 on a confirmation roll, you threaten a double crit. i'm talking about an enhancement that would make a roll of a 19-20 a autoconfirmation of the crit and a possible double crit Normally, when you threaten a critical hit, you then have to confirm it by rolling high enough to hit the target's AC, you don't have to roll a critical threat again. If you have a Longsword with a 19-20/x2 range, and you roll a 20 against a low level goblin, that threatens. If your confirmation roll is only a 15, you probably still make the critical hit (unless he has an AC higher than 15 plus your attack bonus) and so you deal double damage. There is no such thing in the core rules as a "double crit", though there are houserules to the effect that if you roll a 20 multiple times, you instantly kill an enemy or just do more damage than the normal crits. I believe there is an enchantment that gives you a +4 bonus or so on your critical confirmation rolls, and there is also a feat that gives a +4 on confirmation rolls. That way, if you roll poorly on your confirmation roll, you still have a chance of succeeding in landing the crit.
StevenO 08-20-07, 07:40 PM	It sound like you are looking for an ability that could increase the effective critical multiplier in some cases. Another possible way to look at is to get an immediate follow up attack if your confirmation of a criticial would also threaten a critical. There are very few class features that could increase a critical multiplier so I'd definitely rule anything like that out. The problem with increasing the multiplier (even if it is only occasionally) is because it really rewards weapons with a high threat range; they threaten crits far more often so moving a 17-20/x2 to 17-20/x3 is about four times the damage potential a weapon would get from going 20/x4 to 20/x5.
weasel0 08-21-07, 01:25 PM	The triple 20 auto-kill is a varient rule in the DMG and thusly, is RAW.
StevenO 08-21-07, 03:10 PM	The triple 20 auto-kill is a varient rule in the DMG and thusly, is RAW. And provided the DM uses it for all the monsters will usually kill more players than monsters.
weasel0 08-21-07, 05:56 PM	Well, gee, 20 mobs per session, 4-6players per session.... ya think? I didn't make any claims to whether it had a balanced nature nor to whether or not I was condoning it. I was merely pointing out that as it is in the DMG, it is in fact RAW. We play with a slightly less deadly home-brew. In one campain, the same poor guy died 2x to our brew. Though statistically it would only be one in eight thousand. Of course, no matter how you look at it, the players always leave a bigger body count than all the mobs in a campain put together.
Karui_Kage 08-21-07, 07:53 PM	Technically, any variant rule should be a VRAW, and not RAW.
goawayugh 08-24-07, 02:25 PM	I have been playing with this variant for about 4 years now. It has happened probably less than 5 times total. I have only killed 1 PC with it. Plus, iirc, it is only TWO natural 20's followed by a normal confirmation roll for insta-kill.