returning Vs harpoon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

returning Vs harpoon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kaikai
07-17-07, 05:57 PM if a harpoon hits a target, they make a reflex save or it gets stuck in them.
they can yank it out with two hands and a heal check, for no damage, or take damage if no heal check is made.

would returning tear the harpoon out of the target and cause damage? or would the returning ability only really work if ti A doesn't stick or B misses.
TwiddleStootch
07-17-07, 06:19 PM Well, I don't have the stats for the Harpoon, but one thing to check:
Is it a ranged weapon or a melee weapon that can be thrown?
Because only throwable melee weapons can have returning on them.
For example, you can have a returning dagger but not a returning javelin.
kaikai
07-17-07, 06:28 PM its a throw only, do i guess that answers that :)

i thought there were returning arrows.. O.o
i guess that was for neverwinter nights only then i suppose
pres_man
07-17-07, 06:41 PM Well, I don't have the stats for the Harpoon, but one thing to check:
Is it a ranged weapon or a melee weapon that can be thrown?
Because only throwable melee weapons can have returning on them.
For example, you can have a returning dagger but not a returning javelin.
Huh?
Returning: This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature’s next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn).
Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can’t catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, telekinesis; Price +1 bonus.
It doesn't say anything about ranged or melee, it is says if it can be thrown. A javelin could be thrown (that is the typical way to use), thus you could have a returning javelin.
TwiddleStootch
07-17-07, 06:49 PM Sorry, my mistake.

I thought it only applied to melee weapons with a ranged increment.

But, if a Harpoon can have Returning, I would say it doesn't return if it gets stuck.
Anathema
07-17-07, 06:56 PM If you want to get technical, you can throw any weapon, even two-handed weapons. PHB 113
Some_call_me_Tim
07-17-07, 07:29 PM I see two ways to rule this fairly.

The weapon returns when it fails to stick or when it is removed
The weapon returns magically and does no extra damage
For one, I would never allow it to return and do extra damage. That would be basically giving it the equivalent of an auto 2x crit--worth much more than a measly +1 bonus.

I would rule the first option. If pressed for why; the rule for harpoon says the "harpooned creature can pull the harpoon" out possibly causing damage. There are no allowances for removing it magically or forceably.

The above is using the Arms and Equipment Guide version of harpoon.
058
07-18-07, 12:47 AM Why not allow it to return at the wielder's command? If it sticks in someone and they want it back, poof, it returns; otherwise, it just sticks.
pres_man
07-18-07, 02:58 AM The more fun (at least once) would be that if it sticks it returns, but brings the "victim" back as well. Then the player can yell:
GET OVER HERE!
Phrennzy
07-18-07, 12:52 PM The more fun (at least once) would be that if it sticks it returns, but brings the "victim" back as well. Then the player can yell:
GET OVER HERE!

LOL

My thoughts exactly.
DrMorganes
07-18-07, 06:57 PM Why not allow it to return at the wielder's command? If it sticks in someone and they want it back, poof, it returns; otherwise, it just sticks.

Because, as Tim mentioned, the additional damage the removal would cause is effectively allowing the weapon a 2x critical hit EVERY TIME it hits: normal damage on hit, normal damage when the harpoon magically removes itself. Bad, bad, bad for a mere +1 equivalent enhancement.

I'd rule it sticks if it hits, and returns only on a miss.
jasharen
07-20-07, 10:37 AM I agree no damage caused from it returning, however as to the balance issue of causing damage when it is removed, you can but flaming/shock/cold/etc extra d6 damage for a mere +1 bonus, so the balance issue is somewhat moot imo.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kaikai 07-17-07, 05:57 PM	if a harpoon hits a target, they make a reflex save or it gets stuck in them. they can yank it out with two hands and a heal check, for no damage, or take damage if no heal check is made. would returning tear the harpoon out of the target and cause damage? or would the returning ability only really work if ti A doesn't stick or B misses.
TwiddleStootch 07-17-07, 06:19 PM	Well, I don't have the stats for the Harpoon, but one thing to check: Is it a ranged weapon or a melee weapon that can be thrown? Because only throwable melee weapons can have returning on them. For example, you can have a returning dagger but not a returning javelin.
kaikai 07-17-07, 06:28 PM	its a throw only, do i guess that answers that :) i thought there were returning arrows.. O.o i guess that was for neverwinter nights only then i suppose
pres_man 07-17-07, 06:41 PM	Well, I don't have the stats for the Harpoon, but one thing to check: Is it a ranged weapon or a melee weapon that can be thrown? Because only throwable melee weapons can have returning on them. For example, you can have a returning dagger but not a returning javelin. Huh? Returning: This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature’s next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can’t catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown. Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, telekinesis; Price +1 bonus. It doesn't say anything about ranged or melee, it is says if it can be thrown. A javelin could be thrown (that is the typical way to use), thus you could have a returning javelin.
TwiddleStootch 07-17-07, 06:49 PM	Sorry, my mistake. I thought it only applied to melee weapons with a ranged increment. But, if a Harpoon can have Returning, I would say it doesn't return if it gets stuck.
Anathema 07-17-07, 06:56 PM	If you want to get technical, you can throw any weapon, even two-handed weapons. PHB 113
Some_call_me_Tim 07-17-07, 07:29 PM	I see two ways to rule this fairly. The weapon returns when it fails to stick or when it is removed The weapon returns magically and does no extra damage For one, I would never allow it to return and do extra damage. That would be basically giving it the equivalent of an auto 2x crit--worth much more than a measly +1 bonus. I would rule the first option. If pressed for why; the rule for harpoon says the "harpooned creature can pull the harpoon" out possibly causing damage. There are no allowances for removing it magically or forceably. The above is using the Arms and Equipment Guide version of harpoon.
058 07-18-07, 12:47 AM	Why not allow it to return at the wielder's command? If it sticks in someone and they want it back, poof, it returns; otherwise, it just sticks.
pres_man 07-18-07, 02:58 AM	The more fun (at least once) would be that if it sticks it returns, but brings the "victim" back as well. Then the player can yell: GET OVER HERE!
Phrennzy 07-18-07, 12:52 PM	The more fun (at least once) would be that if it sticks it returns, but brings the "victim" back as well. Then the player can yell: GET OVER HERE! LOL My thoughts exactly.
DrMorganes 07-18-07, 06:57 PM	Why not allow it to return at the wielder's command? If it sticks in someone and they want it back, poof, it returns; otherwise, it just sticks. Because, as Tim mentioned, the additional damage the removal would cause is effectively allowing the weapon a 2x critical hit EVERY TIME it hits: normal damage on hit, normal damage when the harpoon magically removes itself. Bad, bad, bad for a mere +1 equivalent enhancement. I'd rule it sticks if it hits, and returns only on a miss.
jasharen 07-20-07, 10:37 AM	I agree no damage caused from it returning, however as to the balance issue of causing damage when it is removed, you can but flaming/shock/cold/etc extra d6 damage for a mere +1 bonus, so the balance issue is somewhat moot imo.