Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Prince_of_Parkness 08-28-07, 04:10 AM	Im planning to hold a dueling tournament in my game, but the D&D rules dont really seem to fit well with it. (The contestants vary from level 4-9, so very expirienced fighters wont be present. The PC's are level 9 and the fighter, paladin and theif will be taking part, so i dont expect then to win, but they will get quite far) The tournament rules are: Game goes to first blood Light and one handed slashing and piercing masterwork weapons only, no armour or shield Obey the judges Everythings fine, exept the first blood. Not wanting to make this a whoever wins initiative wins, I feel some house rules are needed. Here are the options i came up with: Just randomly give each side a +10 AC, problem with this is I dont want the PC's to lose because their opponent rolls a natural 20 in the first round Just randomly give each side 10/+1 DR (first blood would naturally need to be 11 damage and up then), not bad, but i dont want to favour weapons with better damage in this tournament In neverwinter night there was a skill called parry (dex). When activated, you didnt attack, but whenever someone scored a hot on you, you made a skill check (DC attackers roll) to block it entierly, and if i recall correctly you could get a counter attack if you beat the roll by 5 or 10. I thought of using this, but how? Randomly give then 10 or so ranks in this skill+dex modifier? This is the most tempting one in my opinion Have the city's wizard clone each contestant with a spell that lasts for 3 minutes and make the duel to death, but id really like to aviod this D0 you have any ideas yourself?
Kaldric 08-28-07, 04:25 AM	You could say that only confirmed critical hits count as "blood". All other hits count normally, until 0 hp is reached, at which point the hp total resets and the combatant is fatigued. Goes around again and the contestant is exhausted. Basically, it's a race to see who can get the first telling blow, which is what a fight to first blood is really all about, anyway.
Prince_of_Parkness 08-28-07, 04:57 AM	Thats a really good idea thanks, but wont everybody be grabbing high critical threat weapons like scimitars and rapiers then? Its not a major problem but i would like a greater variety of weapons
Sildatorak 08-28-07, 08:06 AM	I would switch it to dueling until one combatant yields, with no dishonor attached to admitting you're outmatched. That way you avoid most people dying, though accidents do happen, especially to stubborn fools who don't know when to quit.
Prince_of_Parkness 08-28-07, 11:32 AM	That could work, but I want this to be different from the standard, hack till he dies. All that would realy change is hack till he gives up or dies. That why I like Kaldric idea because it presents something different.
heffroncm 08-28-07, 12:34 PM	If the fight is going to end based on one hit, it's going to come down to a lucky roll of the d20. Under normal rules, it's the guy who gets initiative, though a Monk, Ninja, Swashbuckler, or Swordsage would have a big advantage (Wis bonus to AC). With Kaldric's idea, it's whoever hits a crit, so high-crit weapons and the 8th and 9th Fighters who can take Improved Critical are on top. With the DR idea, you greatly limit weaponry. Longswords are only possible for those with a Strength of 16 or higher, Rapiers for Strength 20, Kukris would need a Strength of 24. Big, 2-handed weapons will be the norm. A further note on DR, it isn't measured by bonus anymore. Any Magic weapon can get through it. This variant also encourages high-crit tactics. I'd recomend putting the whole place under an effect that causes all damage to be Nonlethal, and just let them slug it out with normal rules.
Prince_of_Parkness 08-28-07, 12:44 PM	If the fight is going to end based on one hit, it's going to come down to a lucky roll of the d20. Under normal rules, it's the guy who gets initiative, though a Monk, Ninja, Swashbuckler, or Swordsage would have a big advantage (Wis bonus to AC). Thats why i started this thread ti get a better idea of optional rules
Prince_of_Parkness 08-28-07, 12:47 PM	With Kaldric's idea, it's whoever hits a crit, so high-crit weapons and the 8th and 9th Fighters who can take Improved Critical are on top. That is a problem, but i really like the idea. It really sort of sets the right feeling for a duel in my mind. I was thinking i could just make it compulsory to use a "duel-sword" (same as long sword but diferetly balanced so no bonus for weapon focus
Prince_of_Parkness 08-28-07, 12:49 PM	With the DR idea, you greatly limit weaponry. Longswords are only possible for those with a Strength of 16 or higher, Rapiers for Strength 20, Kukris would need a Strength of 24. Big, 2-handed weapons will be the norm. A further note on DR, it isn't measured by bonus anymore. Any Magic weapon can get through it. This variant also encourages high-crit tactics. I dont really like the DC idea, but you are forgetting weapon focus and power attack. I still dont think its a good idea though, but its a thought
Prince_of_Parkness 08-28-07, 12:54 PM	I'd recomend putting the whole place under an effect that causes all damage to be Nonlethal, and just let them slug it out with normal rules. Thats a good idea too, and right now its either yours or Kaldric's. The problem I have with yours is that it not very different to the standard hack until he dies style fighting. Another less important but nevertheless relevent problem is how do i describe that to my characters? You hit him with your rapier, but he doesnt bleed. You do 4 damage, but you just hit him with the hilt, so no blood. Sounds stupid
Kaldric 08-28-07, 02:38 PM	Basically, if you "hit" him with the rapier, then you do hp damage but you don't actually draw blood. You make him tired as he barely parries, or dodges aside. After you wear him down a bit (take him down in hp to 0) he'll get more tired/fatigued, his dex will drop, it'll be easier to hit or confirm a crit. The only "real" hit is the critical hit. Yeah, high-crit probability weapons would be preferred. Then again, the weapons with high-crit probabilities are generally flavor-wise the "precise" weapons like rapiers, which would normally be used for duels anyway.
Ecalsneerg 08-28-07, 02:43 PM	You could have both characters start on full defence and not flat-footed. That should even the odds a little bit. If you're worried about critical hits, just remove them in the first few rounds. After that, fair play to 'em. A lot of duels are won by a couple of telling blows.
Abbacabba 08-28-07, 04:12 PM	I've got a tournament going on in my game right now. Its to the death or surrender, since speaking is a free action you can even surrender while your being attacked. Once a participant has surrendered he is no longer a valid target and must remove himself from the arena, failure to do so forfeits his entire teams fight. .... I also had a tournament style area in my last campaign, it was setup by a very high mage who enchanted the entire area with a spell effect.. effectively every attack made in the area was considered "Merciful" dealing only non-lethal damage. This lets combat be to the death, but death is only temporary. Also spells cast would not exit the area, so spectators were safe from a mis-aimed fireball. This approach lets the PC's fight any way they wish, but does rely on some high powered magic. ..... Both have worked out quite well.
Prince_of_Parkness 08-28-07, 05:01 PM	Basically, if you "hit" him with the rapier, then you do hp damage but you don't actually draw blood. You make him tired as he barely parries, or dodges aside. After you wear him down a bit (take him down in hp to 0) he'll get more tired/fatigued, his dex will drop, it'll be easier to hit or confirm a crit. The only "real" hit is the critical hit. Yeah, high-crit probability weapons would be preferred. Then again, the weapons with high-crit probabilities are generally flavor-wise the "precise" weapons like rapiers, which would normally be used for duels anyway. This is the idea im going to use. Thanks ever so much. And thank you everyone else for your time. Of course if you think you have a better idea or system feel free to post
deathbane 08-28-07, 07:23 PM	Im planning to hold a dueling tournament in my game, but the D&D rules dont really seem to fit well with it. (The contestants vary from level 4-9, so very expirienced fighters wont be present. The PC's are level 9 and the fighter, paladin and theif will be taking part, so i dont expect then to win, but they will get quite far) The tournament rules are: Game goes to first blood Light and one handed slashing and piercing masterwork weapons only, no armour or shield Obey the judges Everythings fine, exept the first blood. Not wanting to make this a whoever wins initiative wins, I feel some house rules are needed. Here are the options i came up with: Just randomly give each side a +10 AC, problem with this is I dont want the PC's to lose because their opponent rolls a natural 20 in the first round Just randomly give each side 10/+1 DR (first blood would naturally need to be 11 damage and up then), not bad, but i dont want to favour weapons with better damage in this tournament In neverwinter night there was a skill called parry (dex). When activated, you didnt attack, but whenever someone scored a hot on you, you made a skill check (DC attackers roll) to block it entierly, and if i recall correctly you could get a counter attack if you beat the roll by 5 or 10. I thought of using this, but how? Randomly give then 10 or so ranks in this skill+dex modifier? This is the most tempting one in my opinion Have the city's wizard clone each contestant with a spell that lasts for 3 minutes and make the duel to death, but id really like to aviod this D0 you have any ideas yourself? Here is a way to do which will allow everyone to use their current weapons and armor and make it non lethal: Melee weapons only. You could just say that that all damage will be nonlethal, and that when dropped to zero hit points you are only passed out not dead. All damage will be healed to back to full HP between combats You could start them x amount of feet apart if you dont want initiative to matter so much, but characters that have a good init are being handicapped like this. If they are faster they should reap the rewards. This way it is still a duel and everyone is playing to their potential.
Sildatorak 08-28-07, 07:52 PM	You could make it customary for the person who wins initiative to ready action to attack instead of actually attacking. That way they still get to go first, but it won't be against a flat-footed foe.
deathbane 08-28-07, 07:58 PM	You could make it customary for the person who wins initiative to ready action to attack instead of actually attacking. That way they still get to go first, but it won't be against a flat-footed foe. I have never enforced that nonsense anyway. If you see someone(known enemy) you know what is next, and the other example is when the enemy BBEG gives a long speech, but wins init. There is no way I am flat-footed.
Anaxim 08-29-07, 04:55 PM	I read through Tournements, Fairs and Taverns book by Natural 20 Press and it appears as though Kaldric's idea is the best. It is described in the same fashion in the book, which also covers variants to the duel itself (In what battlefield format or other types of duels) Go with Kaldric's, I say.
Legdiwena 08-29-07, 07:34 PM	If they both succeed on attack in same round, higher damage gets the first blood?