Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aliquid 01-07-08, 07:14 PM	I have found that there isn’t much in the D&D rules for running away from a dangerous foe. Typically it is just a matter of comparing the speeds of those involved, and possibly involving CON if the chase lasts a while. Lots of fantasy stories, (books, movies, TV shows etc) have fun or even epic chase scenes. Sometimes the protagonist is the pursued, sometimes they are the pursuer. So… I am trying to think of ways to use or modify existing rules to make chase scenes more interesting. So far, I have come up with the following: Balance skill The rules state that you can’t run unless in a straight line. I was thinking that can be changed, but you need to make a balance check to see if you fall in the process. e.g. You are running full-speed down a corridor and make a sharp left at an intersection. Make a balance skill check to see if you fail. (maybe you slip and fall, maybe you miss the corner and run into a wall etc..) Different balance checks would be required depending on the condition of the floor, and how sharp of a turn you take. Also you would make checks for going up/down stairs, dealing with obstacles etc. Tumble skill If you do slip while running down stairs, you can use your tumble skill to recover. You would still loose some of your speed in the process, but stumbling and recovering is better than landing on your face and being prone. Bluff and Hide skills If being chased through a forest or through corridors with lots of twists and turns… you can use the classic trick of ducking around a corner to hide wile your opponent is fooled and keeps on running. After this you can sneak away, or follow them and backstab. A bluff skill could also be used too to confuse your opponent. Slowing them down Another standard tactic in chase scenes is to find a way to slow your pursuer down. Drop some caltrops, or some grease or knock that coat-rack over behind you so your opponent trips. I’m not sure what rule mechanic to use for this. If you are running full speed, it is a bit tricky to pull something like that off effectively. Combat While running, you could throw a dagger at your opponent. Maybe you can try to grapple/trip your opponent as you catch up, or just slash them with your sword. There need to be some sort of penalties for these actions though; it can’t be easy to strike a moving target while you are running yourself. These are just some quick ideas I had on the subject. If anyone has some improvements or new ideas, it would be appreciated. Thanks
Marcus Majarra 01-07-08, 11:13 PM	I have found that there isn’t much in the D&D rules for running away from a dangerous foe. Typically it is just a matter of comparing the speeds of those involved, and possibly involving CON if the chase lasts a while. Actually, there's a bit more: In round-by-round movement, simply counting off squares, it’s impossible for a slow character to get away from a determined fast character without mitigating circumstances. Likewise, it’s no problem for a fast character to get away from a slower one. When the speeds of the two concerned characters are equal, there’s a simple way to resolve a chase: If one creature is pursuing another, both are moving at the same speed, and the chase continues for at least a few rounds, have them make opposed Dexterity checks to see who is the faster over those rounds. If the creature being chased wins, it escapes. If the pursuer wins, it catches the fleeing creature. Sometimes a chase occurs overland and could last all day, with the two sides only occasionally getting glimpses of each other at a distance. In the case of a long chase, an opposed Constitution check made by all parties determines which can keep pace the longest. If the creature being chased rolls the highest, it gets away. If not, the chaser runs down its prey, outlasting it with stamina.
mastercloud666 01-08-08, 02:24 AM	Marcus Majarra's answer is good but I think that you were going for a more dynamic, and interactive system that could be used to enhance the drama and danger within the game. I think it would be pretty interesting I would love to here more on the idea if you have anything, or if you want I could come up with the rules. My normal group loves to come up with new rules that can bring more fun and choices to our games.
navar100 01-08-08, 06:29 AM	Fudge it; the party escapes. When the party is clearly trying to run away, the battle is already a loss for them. They're not getting XP. Players get annoyed when bad guys run away. The roles are now just reversed. You have to fudge it at the right time. For intelligent bad guys, the resources spent to prevent the escape just might not be worth it. The bad guys may just be after some goal and don't really care about killing the party; they accomplish their goal and go home. For "monsters", especially those hunting, they may continue to pursue the party, so just escaping by fudge fiat won't make sense. However, the monster may be content with a kill they already got, an NPC or PC, and let the rest run away. Also, you can't do this all the time or else the players will use as a regular tactic because they'll fear nothing. If their attack doesn't work, they just run away to attack something else. Do it when you feel the players "earned" their retreat, but the dice just won't let them escape.
Aliquid 01-08-08, 12:01 PM	Marcus Majarra's answer is good but I think that you were going for a more dynamic, and interactive system that could be used to enhance the drama and danger within the game.That's exactly what I am talking about. I'm looking for ways to add die-rolls, excitement, and drama to various events other than just combat. That way the game doesn't have to be so... hack and slash. I think it would be pretty interesting I would love to here more on the idea if you have anything, or if you want I could come up with the rules. My normal group loves to come up with new rules that can bring more fun and choices to our games.To be honest, I don't really have time to put detailed rules together right now.... this is something I am running around in my head for future development (when I do have time). I figured a bit of brain storming on the boards could help bring out some creative ideas.
mastercloud666 01-08-08, 12:33 PM	Well I have lots of time so if you want I can try to come up with the rules for you.
mvincent 01-08-08, 02:48 PM	These are just some quick ideas I had on the subject. If anyone has some improvements or new ideas, it would be appreciated.I had previously wrote more interesting chase rules for gurps (here (http://www.geocities.com/geowars/gurps/Gurps-action.htm)), which can be easily adapted, or at least provide ideas.
Aliquid 01-08-08, 03:30 PM	I had previously wrote more interesting chase rules for gurps (here (http://www.geocities.com/geowars/gurps/Gurps-action.htm)), which can be easily adapted, or at least provide ideas.That does provide inspiration. Thanks. Well I have lots of time so if you want I can try to come up with the rules for you.No rush, I don’t know when my schedule will open up again…. I miss the days when I had free time. At this point I am mostly musing on the subject. If you think your group would benefit from it too, then feel free to put something together, I would be quite interested to read what you come up with.
1 ton ghost 01-11-08, 03:05 PM	i like where your head's at for the more detail oriented chase. it shouldn't just break down to encumberance, speed, and Con. more options, more better i say. you don't have to use them, but it's nice to have that liberty. i've noticed, not many take the Run feat and it's so nice. why is that? keeping your Dex while moving X5 is pretty decent, plus the gateway into other feats/tricks is impressive. i guess i prefer tacitcal mobility vs. straight up AC and attack bonues. now, for chase scenes, this works great, unless you're being pursued by a construct or undead; they never get fatigued. excellent chase scenes (if you can express them game-wise, i'm all ears): -car chase through French town in "Ronin". best car chase ever, very long too -the "infected" house raid in the English cottage, "28 weeks later". very twisty, chaotic. each room is like an new EL. frantic and fast. -"Run Lola Run", not purely a chase scene, though the movie's namesake is fairly self-explanatory for the entirety of the film's 3 what-if scenarios.
Bruunwald 01-11-08, 03:35 PM	Balance skill The rules state that you can’t run unless in a straight line. I was thinking that can be changed, but you need to make a balance check to see if you fall in the process... I have a feeling that the speed thing here is one of those rules that is supposed to inform you how to direct your actions, rather than the other way around. In other words, the rule simulates the reality of doing the thing, and is therefore not optional, and your character should be acting out what that rule represents. Most of us... no, make that all of us, naturally slow down as we come to a corner from a full bore run. Likewise, in the game, you might be moving 4x speed until you approach that corner, but then on the round you are going to hit it, you must reduce speed to 3x. Remember your Newton. Yes, you can redirect energy and movement, but to do so causes your inertia to lessen because you are in contact with things (air, ground, etc.). More to the point, certain things that cause you to not be able to run in a straight line are probably in the realm of difficult terrain, anyway. That said, I don't think any simple skill could allow a character to so thwart the reality of turning corners at a dangerous speed. It would have to be in the realm of a magic item or some advanced technology. Think of it for a minute: if this was a Porsche, you would be asking it to execute a 90 degree turn at 120 mph without skidding, sliding, losing ground or momentum, on the basis of a skill check. To do that, it would have to cease existing in one direction and spontaneously begin existing in the other, but without touching anything. Which sounds like a really cool spontaneous teleportation device. Don't get me wrong; I like that you are thinking of this stuff. Chase scenes seem overly complicated to me in D&D, and somehow do not pan out to be as exciting as I feel they should be. But all physics aside, I am not sure how much fun not having to slow at a corner would be, since the risk of having to slow down would be the part that actually made anybody sit up and wonder "is this where I'm gonna catch him?" or "is this where I'm gonna get caught?"
Aliquid 01-11-08, 03:50 PM	Think of it for a minute: if this was a Porsche, you would be asking it to execute a 90 degree turn at 120 mph without skidding, sliding, losing ground or momentum, on the basis of a skill check.You are right. The problem is that in D&D in your turn, you are either running, walking or double-moving... you can't do some of each. So you can't run until the corner, slow down, and then start running again. With your car scenario, it is like having to drive at 30 mph for the whole round just because there is one corner. Realistically you would do the 120 mph, then slow down for a few seconds, then speed right back up to 120.
1 ton ghost 01-12-08, 12:54 PM	makes me think of the rules for Flight in the DMG. simple enough, but you have to burn some velocity to execute a turn, change altitude, and the like based on your flight class. for fast moving land born objects/etc., i think this would work as well given its simplicity.
CryoSilver 01-12-08, 01:00 PM	You are right. The problem is that in D&D in your turn, you are either running, walking or double-moving... you can't do some of each. So you can't run until the corner, slow down, and then start running again. The easiest way I've found to turn quickly when running is to do a little jump and turn so that you land facing in your new direction, but in heavy gear, you can throw your knee out very easily doing this. It would probably call for a Balance or Tumble check against DC 15 to do, and cut movement by 10 or 20 feet (since you are essentially stopping and then starting again in a new direction).
ninjacito 01-13-08, 04:59 PM	Isn't running in a straight line a x5 multiplier? If so, just reduce the run speed to x4 since they're having to change direction.
SaveRobertFrostborn 01-16-08, 01:26 AM	I thought it was just a 4x multiplier. But I really liked the first idea posted in this thread: when running "full out", you must make a dex check to turn corners. I think I'll start using that. Overall, though, I think the dice rolling should be simple, while the description (the "story" of the result) should be detailed.
Finarin Panjoro 01-16-08, 11:22 AM	Would it be game breaking to allow run as a standard action for double speed? So a person with speed 30 could run upto 60 feet in a straight line and then use their move action to turn (perhaps multiple times) but only for a total of 30 feet (or reverse that maneuver for 30 and then sprint for 60). Making it a standard action means run can't be combined with a spell cast or attack, but this greatly increases the instances in which it can be used and would probably help liven up chases quite a bit. I'd probably even allow the move action to be taken in the middle of the standard action (like a spring attack) so you could run 30 feet, maneuver for 30 feet possibly just a single turn, and then continue sprinting for another 30 feet, or something similar. This would also allow you to do things like run 60 feet and open/close a door, activate a trap, throw caltrops, drop obstructions, start climbing a wall, etc since you could still take a move equivalent action.
Rood_Inverse 01-18-08, 08:34 PM	Just curious... As I don't have my books at hand... What're the penalties to cast and run at the same time? Full speed? I like the idea of dropping a delayed blast fireball at my feet and continuing to run, hoping it detonates just as my opponent walks over it.
KyoMamoru 01-19-08, 02:29 AM	Concentration Check 10 Vigorous motion (on a moving mount, taking a bouncy wagon ride, in a small boat in rough water, belowdecks in a stormtossed ship). However, running is a full turn action, so you wouldn't be able to cast any spell unless you stopped for the turn. This is, of course assuming you are riding a horse or something of that nature.
Rood_Inverse 01-19-08, 10:03 AM	Have to be done from a wand, then? Surely, you can yell a command word and trigger a wand, while running?
Marcus Majarra 01-19-08, 01:59 PM	Surely, you can yell a command word and trigger a wand, while running? No. No magic item can be activated while doing something else.