Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caligula 07-11-07, 04:25 AM	Hi folks! Yesterday we had an interesting situation. The famous Wizard from Elsir Vale, Morbald the Melancholic, and his friends of the adventuring group "The Heroes of the Valley" had just entered the secret base of an evil kult. As they entered a huge chamber, enemies attacked them from each single corner of the room. Morbald who was positioned in the centre of the room could see all enemies and they were within range. He decided to cast an "Empowered Sculpted Sudden Empowered Energy Substitution Acid Fireball". :eek: Still with me....? Good. ;) Morbald sculpted the Fireball into 4 separate cubes and sent one cube into each corner. So he actually split the Fireball into 4 separate parts that had no connection with another. The distance between the cubes were something like 40-50 ft. My question is 2-fold. 1) Can you combine all of these effects as mentioned above? Several meta-magic feats are included. (Empowered, Sculpted, Sudden Maximized, Energy Type Changed) 2) Can you use the Sculpt feat to "divide" the Fireball so it changes into 4 separate cubes with no connection that can hit each separate corner? I would appreciate any clarification on this as I find the rules text somewhat open to interpretation. Please do not hesitate to ask me follow-up questions as well. Thank you! :)
Androcus Divinicus 07-11-07, 04:33 AM	First of all, meta-magic feats can stack with each other, but each increases the needed spell-slot independently. I'm not looking at my rules right now, but it sounds like the level of that fireball would be very high. My initial thought on the second part of your question is to say that the Sculpt Spell feat cannot accomplish this. I believe that it only allows you to select areas within the spells existing area of effect that will or will not be affected by the spell. Consequently, unless the spell could already affect an area some 50ft across (and with the feats you name I don't think it does), the sculpt spell cannot do what you describe. But again, this is off the top of my head, and I've not referenced any rules. I'll edit this post if my reading of the rules changes my opinion. :: Edit :: Alright, I was mistaking the Sculpt Spell feat for the Mastery of Shaping ability of an Archmage. An Archmage can choose remove 5ft squares from the area of effect of the spell he casts, but the Sculpt spell does not allow you to do this. It just changes the type of the area of effect. My reading of the Sculpt Spell feat says that he should be able to do exactly what you described. Keep in mind however that this will have to have come out of a sixth level spell slot (lower than I would have expected since Energy Substitution and Sudden Maximize have no effect on the slot), and that Sudden Maximize (just like regular Maximize) does not maximize the damage from the effect of empowering the spell. So, what Morbald has done is to use a sixth level spell slot that will affect four 10ft cubes, dealing 60 + (10d6/2) acid damage to any creatures within the area of effect. Also, as you probably know, using a sixth level slot does not mean that the save DC of this particular spell increases, it will still use the DC for Morbald's 3rd level spells. Regards, Justin.
Caligula 07-11-07, 08:18 AM	Ok, Androcus Divinicus thanks for your kind help. Much appreciated! :) How did you come to the conclusion that this particular Fireball needs a 6th level slot?
mussor 07-11-07, 09:14 AM	Ok, Androcus Divinicus thanks for your kind help. Much appreciated! :) How did you come to the conclusion that this particular Fireball needs a 6th level slot? Morbald's player here - quoting myself from the spells subforum: Just wanted to clarify the metamagic involved. It was a sculpted fireball, with energy substitution (acid). On this, Morbald used sudden empower. Then again, nothing would prohibit it from being memorized as empowered and then sudden maximized either, but it would make the thing a 6th level spell. (empower spell=+2 SLs, suulpt spell=+1 SL) :)
Marcus Majarra 07-12-07, 08:11 PM	Just a note, you can't use Sudden Empower on an empowered spell, since Sudden Empower merely applies Empower Spell onto an existing spell and you can't have the same metamagic effect twice on the same spell.
mussor 07-13-07, 04:18 AM	Just a note, you can't use Sudden Empower on an empowered spell, since Sudden Empower merely applies Empower Spell onto an existing spell and you can't have the same metamagic effect twice on the same spell. Exactly. Sudden maximize on en empowered spell does stack, however.