Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tichrimo 03-25-07, 07:27 PM	Think it's acceptable to offer spellcasters these option? Shot on the Run feat is, in a nutshell, move-shoot-move. What if that "shoot" was a ranged spell that can be cast as a standard action? Spring Attack is, by the same token, move-swing-move. What if that "swing" was a touch spell that can be cast as a standard action? The feat trees for both of these are pretty demanding, but they sure would make some interesting options... But too overpowered? Should it require a concentration check to boot?
calronmoonflower 03-25-07, 10:39 PM	You cannot use a stanard action with either Shot on the Run or Spring Attack. If you already cast a touch spell you can spring attack with the touch attack.
Tichrimo 03-25-07, 10:48 PM	Right -- I'm proposing a house-rule here, and trying to sort out the mechanics/viability of it. So, spring attack pretty much works as written with touch spells... Shot on the run is the more interesting one for me anyway. Warlocks and mages with ray spells could be running from cover to cover 'strafing' as they go... Concentration check equivalent to 'violent motion' might be the only thing I'd add in.
Dragonteuthis 03-25-07, 10:58 PM	There's a severe balance problem with allowing something like that, compared to spring attack/shot on the run as is. You see, when a nonspellcaster chooses to use Spring Attack of Shot on the Run, they are giving up some damage by foregoing a full attack, in exchange for mobility and (presumably) greater defensive options. If a spellcaster can move-spell-move, he's not giving up anything. His spell is just as effective. Perhaps if you made it so that you could only cast a spell a certain number of levels below your highest level spell, your proposal would be balanced. Because then you'd have a trade-off in the form of "Do I want to hammer my foes with my highest level spell, or do I want to duck in and out of cover and settle for a weaker spell?" Hmm. Not a bad idea, really.
Tichrimo 03-25-07, 11:19 PM	Hrm... Good point. How's this look, then? Strafing Spell [Metamagic] Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, Combat Casting, Base attack bonus +4 Benefit: When casting a ranged spell whose casting time is a standard action or shorter, you can move before and after casting the spell, provided your total movement is not greater than your speed. A strafing spell uses a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level. Normal: Without this feat, you must complete your move entirely before or entirely after you cast a spell. I figure quicken has a four-level adjustment and pretty much allows the same thing, but it doesn't have nearly as long a list of prerequisites.
Marcus Majarra 03-26-07, 04:26 AM	I don't believe you need to house rule here. The Complete Adventurer features the Mobile Spellcasting feat, on page 111, which allows a spellcaster to cast a spell with a casting time no longer than 1 standard action and move his speed as a single standard action. It's not quite Spring Attack or Shot on the Run, but it does allow for more movement in a single round than either of those feats.
Merestil Haye 03-26-07, 07:12 AM	As another alternative, a spellcaster who can fly can take Flyby Attack, which allows the creature to combine a move action with any standard action - although it does not protect against AoOs from movement.
Aeromus 03-26-07, 08:01 AM	Hrm... Good point. How's this look, then? Strafing Spell [Metamagic] Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, Combat Casting, Base attack bonus +4 Benefit: When casting a ranged spell whose casting time is a standard action or shorter, you can move before and after casting the spell, provided your total movement is not greater than your speed. A strafing spell uses a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level. Normal: Without this feat, you must complete your move entirely before or entirely after you cast a spell. I figure quicken has a four-level adjustment and pretty much allows the same thing, but it doesn't have nearly as long a list of prerequisites. I would re word it and add/subtract a few things. Mobile Casting [Metamagic] Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, Combat Casting, Shot on the Run Benefit: On your turn you may interrupt you move to cast a spell requiring an attack roll, and then finish your movement. This casting does NOT provoke normally to the target(s) of used spell. Normal: Without this feat, you must complete your move entirely before or entirely after you cast a spell. Special: You may not use this feat, for area effect spells, spells that don't require a ranged or melee attack roll, or if encumbered enough to have a movement restriction.
Tichrimo 03-26-07, 08:16 PM	I don't believe you need to house rule here. The Complete Adventurer features the Mobile Spellcasting feat, on page 111, which allows a spellcaster to cast a spell with a casting time no longer than 1 standard action and move his speed as a single standard action. It's not quite Spring Attack or Shot on the Run, but it does allow for more movement in a single round than either of those feats. Wow -- never even noticed that one (even though I own Complete Adventurer)... Would you allow a warlock to grab that feat for his eldritch blast (not technically a "spell" per se, but otherwise conforms to the requirements of the feat).
Marcus Majarra 03-27-07, 02:11 PM	No, I wouldn't. I would, however, suggest Fly-by Attack for any Warlock with the Fell Flight lesser invocation.
Tichrimo 03-27-07, 09:39 PM	Fair enough... In any case, here's the revised version of my houserule -- a little harsher on the requirements than what's in Complete Adventurer, but more balanced (IMHO)... Tactical Casting [General] Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, Skill Focus (Concentration), base attack bonus +4 Benefit: When casting a spell or using a spell-like ability with a casting time of a standard action or faster, you can move both before and after casting, provided that your total movement spent is not greater than your speed. You must declare your total move first, which spell you intend to cast, and the point during the move you wish to cast it. To successfully cast the spell, you must complete your move, then make a Concentration check, DC15 + 1 per 5 ft. of movement spent (including modifications for terrain) + 2 times the spell level. If your movement cannot be completed as declared, (because of unseen obstacles, a failed skill check during your movement, etc.), the spell is lost. E.g. Ander declares he will use tactical casting. He chooses a move action that passes through 1 square of rough terrain, and 2 squares of normal terrain, totalling his 20 ft. of movement. He then chooses a point in that 20 ft. move to cast disintegrate. He completes the move, and must make a DC31 Concentration check. (Base 15 + 4 for spending 20 ft. of movement + 12 for a 6th level spell.) If the Concentration check is successful, the spell is resolved normally as if he had cast it from the designated point. Special: If the spell selected is a Stilled spell (q.v Still Spell metamagic feat), you receive a +5 bonus to your Concentration check. Normal: Without this feat, you must complete your move action either entirely before or entirely after using your standard action to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability.
conkeestedoray 03-28-07, 09:21 PM	I like this better (Tactical Casting version) -- the CA version seems far too easy when one considers the difficulty that a Fighter needs for Spring Attack or Shot on the Run. Also, the math works out well and hovers around the roll 10+ on the concentration check that seems to exist through out the better made feats/skill checks.
Marcus Majarra 03-29-07, 12:02 AM	There's one big drawback with Mobile Spellcasting that you do not have with Spring Attack: you still provoke AoOs for both moving and casting.
conkeestedoray 03-29-07, 12:56 PM	There's one big drawback with Mobile Spellcasting that you do not have with Spring Attack: you still provoke AoOs for both moving and casting. Close -- Spring Attack only allows you to avoid AOOs agains the target you're attacking -- anyone one else who would threaten you still gets their AOOs; this wouldn't apply to area of effect spells anyway, but maybe should be considered for ranged touch variants...