skill/ability penalty/bonuses [Archive] - Wizards Community

skill/ability penalty/bonuses [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Macromoon
02-20-08, 12:27 PM Recently was discussing with my group some new characters we are getting ready to play and an interesting set of questions was coming up.

One person is planning on playing a whisper gnome/DFA but wanted to place armor on them (DFA not being proficient in armor)

The question being, as the penalty for not being proficient effects dex based skill checks, would this also effect reflex saves (saves are not classified as a skill check)

The reverse came up with an illumian cleric, taking the +wis sigil, and wondering if this would give her a bonus on her will saves.

as a concept, I see that it should work both ways, but the way the rules are written for skills, saves, and penalties, it would not apply.

Any clarification would be appreciated.
Akharu
02-20-08, 12:37 PM Per SRD
Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks.

Says nothing about affecting saves, so no. Also, the Hoon sigil (which I believe you are referring to) says it gives a bonus to wisdom checks and wisdom-based skill checks. A saving throw is neither of those.
Macromoon
02-20-08, 12:42 PM thats how we read it and I just wanted to clarify.

in a real imaging situation, I couldn't see how wearing the armor would NOT effect reflex saves and such, as you aren't proficient in wearing the armor correctly.
Lilinthra
02-20-08, 03:16 PM thats how we read it and I just wanted to clarify.

in a real imaging situation, I couldn't see how wearing the armor would NOT effect reflex saves and such, as you aren't proficient in wearing the armor correctly.
It absolutely will effect the character's initiative, though. Also, if the character is capable of flight, they will have to be lightly-encumbered if not using an armor enhancement or some other type of magic item.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Macromoon 02-20-08, 12:27 PM	Recently was discussing with my group some new characters we are getting ready to play and an interesting set of questions was coming up. One person is planning on playing a whisper gnome/DFA but wanted to place armor on them (DFA not being proficient in armor) The question being, as the penalty for not being proficient effects dex based skill checks, would this also effect reflex saves (saves are not classified as a skill check) The reverse came up with an illumian cleric, taking the +wis sigil, and wondering if this would give her a bonus on her will saves. as a concept, I see that it should work both ways, but the way the rules are written for skills, saves, and penalties, it would not apply. Any clarification would be appreciated.
Akharu 02-20-08, 12:37 PM	Per SRD Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. Says nothing about affecting saves, so no. Also, the Hoon sigil (which I believe you are referring to) says it gives a bonus to wisdom checks and wisdom-based skill checks. A saving throw is neither of those.
Macromoon 02-20-08, 12:42 PM	thats how we read it and I just wanted to clarify. in a real imaging situation, I couldn't see how wearing the armor would NOT effect reflex saves and such, as you aren't proficient in wearing the armor correctly.
Lilinthra 02-20-08, 03:16 PM	thats how we read it and I just wanted to clarify. in a real imaging situation, I couldn't see how wearing the armor would NOT effect reflex saves and such, as you aren't proficient in wearing the armor correctly. It absolutely will effect the character's initiative, though. Also, if the character is capable of flight, they will have to be lightly-encumbered if not using an armor enhancement or some other type of magic item.