Slam Attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Slam Attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darthnazrael
07-31-07, 03:03 AM This question is, for the most part, a flavor question, but it matters with things like warshapers, which can get a ridiculous number of natural weapons: What, exactly constitutes a "slam attack". I've looked in the index of the Monster Manual and Player's Handbook, and found no particular description. It seems like a single word for "unarmed strike with (generally) better damage that counts as armed and doesn't count for unarmed strike-dependent effects". A point of major concern: With what part of the body is a slam attack performed? Any? Or is it specific to each creature (ie, maybe a Mummy slams with his arms, while a warforged slams with his feet or head)?

Thanks, ahead of time, for any help you could provide me on this. This question's troubled me for sometime, but hasn't come up until now, now that I'm considering a Warforged natural attack-based build.
runestar
07-31-07, 03:22 AM I cannot find a statement for this either, implying that it might be possible to make a slam with any part of your body, meaning that among other things, a warforged can attack with a 2-handed weapon and follow up with his slam and bite attacks as secondary attacks?:confused:
Darthnazrael
07-31-07, 04:21 AM That's the conclusion I've come to, except that a Warforged would need the Jaws of Death feat, or some other factor to actually HAVE a bite attack, but yea. I was wondering for that specific reason, because I planned on subbing in Warforged for Diabolus in this build (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12174585#post12174585) so that I wouldn't have to deal with level adjustment. I chose warforged for the same reason Diabolus was originally chosen: a slightly uncommon natural attack, which allows room for more natural attacks of different types.

If anyone has any evidence to the contrary of these assumptions, please feel free to chime in. Thank you.
Anathema
07-31-07, 04:55 AM An (improved) unarmed strike is like a martial art. You position your body in a way that you can defend or roll with strikes, and strike back in a way that does not lower your guard.

A slam attack doesn't care about your guard, or rolling with blows, or defending your own body when you attack. A slam is simply flailing an appendage at your target and bashing them with the weight of your arm (or whatever) and the strength behind it.

This is why slam attacks are most frequently found on creatures with damage reduction or some kind of regeneration, because they don't have an innate sense to protect themselves from openings (AoO's, which standard unarmed strikes provoke).
eamon
07-31-07, 07:54 AM A warforged slams with his arms. It's the only thing that really makes sense... ...right?

According to the natural weapons section it would have to be an appendage, so it might be a leg too, though I think you could safely rule that a 'forged needs both legs to stand on. I don't think a head is sufficiently large nor sufficiently flexible to be used as a flailing appendage for a slam attack. I'd say you need a free hand for the slam attack.
runestar
07-31-07, 08:01 AM It could be with your elbow. Or your shoulder. Legs are possible too...
Marcus Majarra
07-31-07, 12:29 PM This question is, for the most part, a flavor question, but it matters with things like warshapers, which can get a ridiculous number of natural weapons

This, of course, is false. No ability stacks with itself (unless otherwise stated), including Morphic Weapons. Thus, when using this ability, you can either improve a natural weapon or grow a new one. You can't improve more than one natural weapon or grow more than a single new one at a time.
Sildatorak
08-01-07, 02:13 PM I rule that warforged use an arm to slam with, even though it isn't ever defined that specifically.

Also, Marcus Majarra is right about the morphic weapons ability. If he wasn't then you would just need to spend a few minutes to get every ridiculous natural weapon like intestine loop and hair lash.
Downtym
08-01-07, 05:49 PM A point of major concern: With what part of the body is a slam attack performed? Any?

From the SRD:

....or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm). Refer to the individual monster descriptions.

Slap or Slam: The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage.

My interpretation is that a slam attack is usually with the arms or, more appropriately, forearms, wrists, and hands. Think HULK SMASH! style attacks where the bad guy raises his hands over his head and slams them into the ground. Most creatures that have slam attacks seem to be limited to either 1 or 2 slam attacks per round.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darthnazrael 07-31-07, 03:03 AM	This question is, for the most part, a flavor question, but it matters with things like warshapers, which can get a ridiculous number of natural weapons: What, exactly constitutes a "slam attack". I've looked in the index of the Monster Manual and Player's Handbook, and found no particular description. It seems like a single word for "unarmed strike with (generally) better damage that counts as armed and doesn't count for unarmed strike-dependent effects". A point of major concern: With what part of the body is a slam attack performed? Any? Or is it specific to each creature (ie, maybe a Mummy slams with his arms, while a warforged slams with his feet or head)? Thanks, ahead of time, for any help you could provide me on this. This question's troubled me for sometime, but hasn't come up until now, now that I'm considering a Warforged natural attack-based build.
runestar 07-31-07, 03:22 AM	I cannot find a statement for this either, implying that it might be possible to make a slam with any part of your body, meaning that among other things, a warforged can attack with a 2-handed weapon and follow up with his slam and bite attacks as secondary attacks?:confused:
Darthnazrael 07-31-07, 04:21 AM	That's the conclusion I've come to, except that a Warforged would need the Jaws of Death feat, or some other factor to actually HAVE a bite attack, but yea. I was wondering for that specific reason, because I planned on subbing in Warforged for Diabolus in this build (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12174585#post12174585) so that I wouldn't have to deal with level adjustment. I chose warforged for the same reason Diabolus was originally chosen: a slightly uncommon natural attack, which allows room for more natural attacks of different types. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary of these assumptions, please feel free to chime in. Thank you.
Anathema 07-31-07, 04:55 AM	An (improved) unarmed strike is like a martial art. You position your body in a way that you can defend or roll with strikes, and strike back in a way that does not lower your guard. A slam attack doesn't care about your guard, or rolling with blows, or defending your own body when you attack. A slam is simply flailing an appendage at your target and bashing them with the weight of your arm (or whatever) and the strength behind it. This is why slam attacks are most frequently found on creatures with damage reduction or some kind of regeneration, because they don't have an innate sense to protect themselves from openings (AoO's, which standard unarmed strikes provoke).
eamon 07-31-07, 07:54 AM	A warforged slams with his arms. It's the only thing that really makes sense... ...right? According to the natural weapons section it would have to be an appendage, so it might be a leg too, though I think you could safely rule that a 'forged needs both legs to stand on. I don't think a head is sufficiently large nor sufficiently flexible to be used as a flailing appendage for a slam attack. I'd say you need a free hand for the slam attack.
runestar 07-31-07, 08:01 AM	It could be with your elbow. Or your shoulder. Legs are possible too...
Marcus Majarra 07-31-07, 12:29 PM	This question is, for the most part, a flavor question, but it matters with things like warshapers, which can get a ridiculous number of natural weapons This, of course, is false. No ability stacks with itself (unless otherwise stated), including Morphic Weapons. Thus, when using this ability, you can either improve a natural weapon or grow a new one. You can't improve more than one natural weapon or grow more than a single new one at a time.
Sildatorak 08-01-07, 02:13 PM	I rule that warforged use an arm to slam with, even though it isn't ever defined that specifically. Also, Marcus Majarra is right about the morphic weapons ability. If he wasn't then you would just need to spend a few minutes to get every ridiculous natural weapon like intestine loop and hair lash.
Downtym 08-01-07, 05:49 PM	A point of major concern: With what part of the body is a slam attack performed? Any? From the SRD: ....or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm). Refer to the individual monster descriptions. Slap or Slam: The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage. My interpretation is that a slam attack is usually with the arms or, more appropriately, forearms, wrists, and hands. Think HULK SMASH! style attacks where the bad guy raises his hands over his head and slams them into the ground. Most creatures that have slam attacks seem to be limited to either 1 or 2 slam attacks per round.