Sleeping player [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sleeping player [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tunllaw
09-01-07, 06:19 AM I have a player that wants to backstab and rob the other players and go solo (perfectly fine, story wise it works out perfect as long as no one quits when it happens:rolleyes: )

He wants to do this when his party mates are sleeping, I need to know what rolls happen when

A: One sneaks up on a sleeping player, does said player get any rolls to wake up?

B: Stealing off a sleeping PC, does said PC make a spot check opposing a slight of hand or is the sleeping PC helpless and no rolls are made?

C: Drinking a potion made to put people to sleep thinking its a potion of cure light wounds constitute a fort save? In terms of resisting the effects, drinking something would constitute a harsh fort DC woulden't it? like drinking chloriform.
Heros_Backpack
09-01-07, 06:49 AM A: The sleeping PC gets a Listen check with a -10 modifier.

C: The nearest existing thing to a potion of sleep is probably the Oil of Taggit poison - Ingested, DC15, 0/Unconscious.
Krusk
09-01-07, 01:48 PM a- listen at -10, also there is a penalty for distance you might want to remember. depending on how far they sneak from.

b- if they wake up they do. Otherwise you should still do a sleight of hand check of a decently high DC so they do not wake the person. That DC is up to you as far as i know. Befor to announce it out loud, so the players know befor any rolls are made and don't think your favoring one over another.

C-They would simply make the fort save as normal for that potion. Regardless if they thought it was a diffrent potion or not.

Also make sure your group is ok with PVP befor this happens, because a lot of groups are not and get very upset.
Madsamurai
09-01-07, 02:24 PM If the player gives them a potion of sleep or deep slumber, depending on party level, and the player drinks it thinking that it is a heal potion, then they are assumed to forgoe their save. This is because cure potions have a save for half which any decent adventurer volitarily fails when they drink the potion.
Kouk
09-01-07, 05:40 PM If the player gives them a potion of sleep or deep slumber, depending on party level, and the player drinks it thinking that it is a heal potion, then they are assumed to forgoe their save. This is because cure potions have a save for half which any decent adventurer volitarily fails when they drink the potion.

How are you treating this Cure Potion to put them to sleep?

For one thing, I would say the drinker could make a Spellcraft check to identify a potion if he has the skill (even if it is too late because he has drunk it) when he notices there is a strange taste or something. If the effect is not instantaneous, he should be able to at least make some kind of mention "Hey this tastes pretty weird... why's the sky spinning?"

Another, if something starts making you tired I think the save would apply to that effect rather than the character just saying, "I forgo all saves related to this potion now and in the future regardless of what it does to me". I think a character making a save would have some general idea what he was saving against, and could tell if something was trying to purely heal him or do something else. Especially since, presumably, adventurers chug this stuff all the time they should know the normal "feeling".
heffroncm
09-01-07, 06:41 PM Giving up your save for a Harmless spell isn't the same as giving it up for another sort of spell. Reading page 177 of the Player's Handbook, the listing for a Harmless save is:

The spell is usually beneficial, not harmful, but a
targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it desires.

and the entry for voluntarily giving up your save is:

A creature can voluntarily
forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result.Even
a character with a special resistance to magic (for example, an elf’s
resistance to sleep effects) can suppress this quality.

Seems to me that normally, a Harmless spell isn't saved against unless the creature being targeted chooses at the time it's cast to roll a save. Similarly, harmful spells are always rolled against unless the target chooses specifically not to roll a save. This would leave people protected against drinking a potion, as they'll always be able to save against a harmful spell unless they choose not to, and never have to save against Cure unless they choose to do so.

Honestly, it doesn't make a lot of sense and seems just mean to force someone to surpress all resistance just to get Cured. Now, Spell Resistance works differently, as is explained in it's definition.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tunllaw 09-01-07, 06:19 AM	I have a player that wants to backstab and rob the other players and go solo (perfectly fine, story wise it works out perfect as long as no one quits when it happens:rolleyes: ) He wants to do this when his party mates are sleeping, I need to know what rolls happen when A: One sneaks up on a sleeping player, does said player get any rolls to wake up? B: Stealing off a sleeping PC, does said PC make a spot check opposing a slight of hand or is the sleeping PC helpless and no rolls are made? C: Drinking a potion made to put people to sleep thinking its a potion of cure light wounds constitute a fort save? In terms of resisting the effects, drinking something would constitute a harsh fort DC woulden't it? like drinking chloriform.
Heros_Backpack 09-01-07, 06:49 AM	A: The sleeping PC gets a Listen check with a -10 modifier. C: The nearest existing thing to a potion of sleep is probably the Oil of Taggit poison - Ingested, DC15, 0/Unconscious.
Krusk 09-01-07, 01:48 PM	a- listen at -10, also there is a penalty for distance you might want to remember. depending on how far they sneak from. b- if they wake up they do. Otherwise you should still do a sleight of hand check of a decently high DC so they do not wake the person. That DC is up to you as far as i know. Befor to announce it out loud, so the players know befor any rolls are made and don't think your favoring one over another. C-They would simply make the fort save as normal for that potion. Regardless if they thought it was a diffrent potion or not. Also make sure your group is ok with PVP befor this happens, because a lot of groups are not and get very upset.
Madsamurai 09-01-07, 02:24 PM	If the player gives them a potion of sleep or deep slumber, depending on party level, and the player drinks it thinking that it is a heal potion, then they are assumed to forgoe their save. This is because cure potions have a save for half which any decent adventurer volitarily fails when they drink the potion.
Kouk 09-01-07, 05:40 PM	If the player gives them a potion of sleep or deep slumber, depending on party level, and the player drinks it thinking that it is a heal potion, then they are assumed to forgoe their save. This is because cure potions have a save for half which any decent adventurer volitarily fails when they drink the potion. How are you treating this Cure Potion to put them to sleep? For one thing, I would say the drinker could make a Spellcraft check to identify a potion if he has the skill (even if it is too late because he has drunk it) when he notices there is a strange taste or something. If the effect is not instantaneous, he should be able to at least make some kind of mention "Hey this tastes pretty weird... why's the sky spinning?" Another, if something starts making you tired I think the save would apply to that effect rather than the character just saying, "I forgo all saves related to this potion now and in the future regardless of what it does to me". I think a character making a save would have some general idea what he was saving against, and could tell if something was trying to purely heal him or do something else. Especially since, presumably, adventurers chug this stuff all the time they should know the normal "feeling".
heffroncm 09-01-07, 06:41 PM	Giving up your save for a Harmless spell isn't the same as giving it up for another sort of spell. Reading page 177 of the Player's Handbook, the listing for a Harmless save is: The spell is usually beneficial, not harmful, but a targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it desires. and the entry for voluntarily giving up your save is: A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result.Even a character with a special resistance to magic (for example, an elf’s resistance to sleep effects) can suppress this quality. Seems to me that normally, a Harmless spell isn't saved against unless the creature being targeted chooses at the time it's cast to roll a save. Similarly, harmful spells are always rolled against unless the target chooses specifically not to roll a save. This would leave people protected against drinking a potion, as they'll always be able to save against a harmful spell unless they choose not to, and never have to save against Cure unless they choose to do so. Honestly, it doesn't make a lot of sense and seems just mean to force someone to surpress all resistance just to get Cured. Now, Spell Resistance works differently, as is explained in it's definition.