sneak attack or not? [Archive] - Wizards Community

sneak attack or not? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daydreamer
03-19-07, 01:48 AM Ok so.

If the only light source is moonlight, then this counts as camoflogue-in other words- a human can hide from a human here, and a human cant sneak attack bc u cant sneak attack camoflogued ppl.

NOw, if an elf walks in, you cant hide from him, bc he can still see clearly in low light up to x distance. So the elf, if he were a rogue could sneak attack.

BUT
What about a dwarf rogue? If the dwarf is using darkvision, then fine, but what if he were only using regular vision so he could see further than 60 feet? Is his normal night vision only as good as a humans, or does he also have low light vision?

The specific qustion then, can a dwarf sneak attack someone whos only partially visable under moonlight.

I know a human cant, and i know an elf can.
What about dwarf (whos not using darkvision) or could he turn it on really quick and then use it? What say you.
calronmoonflower
03-19-07, 03:05 AM ???

darkvision would negate concealment from poor visibility, so you could sneak attack.
KurenaiYami
03-19-07, 03:16 AM Ok so.

If the only light source is moonlight, then this counts as camoflogue-in other words- a human can hide from a human here, and a human cant sneak attack bc u cant sneak attack camoflogued ppl.

NOw, if an elf walks in, you cant hide from him, bc he can still see clearly in low light up to x distance. So the elf, if he were a rogue could sneak attack.

BUT
What about a dwarf rogue? If the dwarf is using darkvision, then fine, but what if he were only using regular vision so he could see further than 60 feet? Is his normal night vision only as good as a humans, or does he also have low light vision?

The specific qustion then, can a dwarf sneak attack someone whos only partially visable under moonlight.

I know a human cant, and i know an elf can.
What about dwarf (whos not using darkvision) or could he turn it on really quick and then use it? What say you.

You don't switch darkvision on and off. It's always active.
Millennium
03-19-07, 09:37 AM You don't switch darkvision on and off. It's always active.
True, but normally darkvision is blinded by just about any light out there. Is moonlight too bright for darkvision to work?
olshanski_home
03-19-07, 10:09 AM True, but normally darkvision is blinded by just about any light out there. Is moonlight too bright for darkvision to work?
Where did you get this idea?

Are you playing 1st edition and confusing darkvision with infravision or ultravision?

There is no distinction in 3.5 edition d20 regarding darkvision (nor was there in 3.0).

No light source interferes with darkvision.
Tarus
03-19-07, 10:48 AM Which is a sad sad loss. I think there were lots of ways they could have made it more simple without making it stupid :-p
Frugal
03-19-07, 11:15 AM Notice that a lot of races with darkvision also have light sensitivity to reflect that they can't handle brighter light. Dwarves don't though.
Daydreamer
03-19-07, 04:40 PM I see so dwarfs have 'regular vision' and darkvision active simultaneously?

So in a pitch black cave with a tourch giving light to 20 feet, the dwarf could see out to 60 feet, and also see things under torchlight like normal?

However he could not make out an object in moonlight as far away as an elf could because he does not posses low light vision?

But he could sneak attack.-since u can only do that close anyway.
SALDAR
03-19-07, 10:28 PM I see so dwarfs have 'regular vision' and darkvision active simultaneously?

So in a pitch black cave with a tourch giving light to 20 feet, the dwarf could see out to 60 feet, and also see things under torchlight like normal?

However he could not make out an object in moonlight as far away as an elf could because he does not posses low light vision?

But he could sneak attack.-since u can only do that close anyway.

Yes to all.
Neutronium_Dragon
03-20-07, 09:40 AM Essentially, the dwarf in that circumstance sees things normally (and in color) out to 20 feet. Between 20 and 60 feet away, he sees things in black and white. If there's moonlight around, he'd be seeing dimly beyond that.

The elf in that circumstance would see things normally (and in color) out to 40 feet (due to low light vision) and then dimly beyond that.

If it was something with blow low light vision and darkvision (there are a few creatures like this), they'd see normally (and in color) out to 40 feet, in black-and-white from 40 to 60 feet, and then dimly beyond that.
Epicweaver
03-20-07, 10:23 AM If the only light source is moonlight, then this counts as camoflogue-in other words- a human can hide from a human here, and a human cant sneak attack bc u cant sneak attack camoflogued ppl.

Let's put it this way... Everyone get's concealment against the human in this scenario... So basically the human can sneak attack no one.

an elf walks in, you cant hide from him, bc he can still see clearly in low light up to x distance. So the elf, if he were a rogue could sneak attack.Assuming the human is not hiding (which he can do provided there are obstacles around), then yes, the elf would retain the ability to deal sneak attack damage to the human (provided all the circumstances to gain sneak attack against the human were still met... no dex/flat-footed/invisible/etc).

What about a dwarf rogue? If the dwarf is using darkvision, then fine, but what if he were only using regular vision so he could see further than 60 feet? Is his normal night vision only as good as a humans, or does he also have low light vision?
In the moonlight, the dwarf sees perfectly with darkvision up to 60ft. Unless someone is actively hiding, no one would have concealment against him so he would not be prevented from dealing sneak attack damage.

The specific qustion then, can a dwarf sneak attack someone whos only partially visable under moonlight.If the target is within 30ft feet (which meets both the range requirements... darkvision 60ft & sneak attack 30ft) and the sneak attack conditions are met, yes.

I know a human cant, and i know an elf can.
What about dwarf (whos not using darkvision) or could he turn it on really quick and then use it? What say you.
The elf (assuming moonlight 20ft bright/21-40ft dim) would be able to sneak attack anyone within 20ft... further then that, the opponent would have concealment and negate any chance of sneak attack.
Daydreamer
03-22-07, 10:26 PM merci
Lord Nedd
03-23-07, 12:09 PM merci

Je vous en prie.
Lotusblossom
03-24-07, 01:15 AM The elf (assuming moonlight 20ft bright/21-40ft dim) would be able to sneak attack anyone within 20ft... further then that, the opponent would have concealment and negate any chance of sneak attack.

Where does it say that moonlight provides bright light around you and then dim light around that? I think moonlight provides dim light everywhere, which means even elves and dragons and giant owls, with 2x, 4x, and 7x low-light vision, can't sneak attack in moonlight.
calronmoonflower
03-24-07, 02:36 AM Where does it say that moonlight provides bright light around you and then dim light around that? I think moonlight provides dim light everywhere, which means even elves and dragons and giant owls, with 2x, 4x, and 7x low-light vision, can't sneak attack in moonlight.

it would depends on how full the moon is.

I can see fairly well under a full moon.
Frugal
03-24-07, 08:29 AM Where does it say that moonlight provides bright light around you and then dim light around that? I think moonlight provides dim light everywhere, which means even elves and dragons and giant owls, with 2x, 4x, and 7x low-light vision, can't sneak attack in moonlight.

I thought that the brighter in close was in relation to the example with the torch.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daydreamer 03-19-07, 01:48 AM	Ok so. If the only light source is moonlight, then this counts as camoflogue-in other words- a human can hide from a human here, and a human cant sneak attack bc u cant sneak attack camoflogued ppl. NOw, if an elf walks in, you cant hide from him, bc he can still see clearly in low light up to x distance. So the elf, if he were a rogue could sneak attack. BUT What about a dwarf rogue? If the dwarf is using darkvision, then fine, but what if he were only using regular vision so he could see further than 60 feet? Is his normal night vision only as good as a humans, or does he also have low light vision? The specific qustion then, can a dwarf sneak attack someone whos only partially visable under moonlight. I know a human cant, and i know an elf can. What about dwarf (whos not using darkvision) or could he turn it on really quick and then use it? What say you.
calronmoonflower 03-19-07, 03:05 AM	??? darkvision would negate concealment from poor visibility, so you could sneak attack.
KurenaiYami 03-19-07, 03:16 AM	Ok so. If the only light source is moonlight, then this counts as camoflogue-in other words- a human can hide from a human here, and a human cant sneak attack bc u cant sneak attack camoflogued ppl. NOw, if an elf walks in, you cant hide from him, bc he can still see clearly in low light up to x distance. So the elf, if he were a rogue could sneak attack. BUT What about a dwarf rogue? If the dwarf is using darkvision, then fine, but what if he were only using regular vision so he could see further than 60 feet? Is his normal night vision only as good as a humans, or does he also have low light vision? The specific qustion then, can a dwarf sneak attack someone whos only partially visable under moonlight. I know a human cant, and i know an elf can. What about dwarf (whos not using darkvision) or could he turn it on really quick and then use it? What say you. You don't switch darkvision on and off. It's always active.
Millennium 03-19-07, 09:37 AM	You don't switch darkvision on and off. It's always active. True, but normally darkvision is blinded by just about any light out there. Is moonlight too bright for darkvision to work?
olshanski_home 03-19-07, 10:09 AM	True, but normally darkvision is blinded by just about any light out there. Is moonlight too bright for darkvision to work? Where did you get this idea? Are you playing 1st edition and confusing darkvision with infravision or ultravision? There is no distinction in 3.5 edition d20 regarding darkvision (nor was there in 3.0). No light source interferes with darkvision.
Tarus 03-19-07, 10:48 AM	Which is a sad sad loss. I think there were lots of ways they could have made it more simple without making it stupid :-p
Frugal 03-19-07, 11:15 AM	Notice that a lot of races with darkvision also have light sensitivity to reflect that they can't handle brighter light. Dwarves don't though.
Daydreamer 03-19-07, 04:40 PM	I see so dwarfs have 'regular vision' and darkvision active simultaneously? So in a pitch black cave with a tourch giving light to 20 feet, the dwarf could see out to 60 feet, and also see things under torchlight like normal? However he could not make out an object in moonlight as far away as an elf could because he does not posses low light vision? But he could sneak attack.-since u can only do that close anyway.
SALDAR 03-19-07, 10:28 PM	I see so dwarfs have 'regular vision' and darkvision active simultaneously? So in a pitch black cave with a tourch giving light to 20 feet, the dwarf could see out to 60 feet, and also see things under torchlight like normal? However he could not make out an object in moonlight as far away as an elf could because he does not posses low light vision? But he could sneak attack.-since u can only do that close anyway. Yes to all.
Neutronium_Dragon 03-20-07, 09:40 AM	Essentially, the dwarf in that circumstance sees things normally (and in color) out to 20 feet. Between 20 and 60 feet away, he sees things in black and white. If there's moonlight around, he'd be seeing dimly beyond that. The elf in that circumstance would see things normally (and in color) out to 40 feet (due to low light vision) and then dimly beyond that. If it was something with blow low light vision and darkvision (there are a few creatures like this), they'd see normally (and in color) out to 40 feet, in black-and-white from 40 to 60 feet, and then dimly beyond that.
Epicweaver 03-20-07, 10:23 AM	If the only light source is moonlight, then this counts as camoflogue-in other words- a human can hide from a human here, and a human cant sneak attack bc u cant sneak attack camoflogued ppl. Let's put it this way... Everyone get's concealment against the human in this scenario... So basically the human can sneak attack no one. an elf walks in, you cant hide from him, bc he can still see clearly in low light up to x distance. So the elf, if he were a rogue could sneak attack.Assuming the human is not hiding (which he can do provided there are obstacles around), then yes, the elf would retain the ability to deal sneak attack damage to the human (provided all the circumstances to gain sneak attack against the human were still met... no dex/flat-footed/invisible/etc). What about a dwarf rogue? If the dwarf is using darkvision, then fine, but what if he were only using regular vision so he could see further than 60 feet? Is his normal night vision only as good as a humans, or does he also have low light vision? In the moonlight, the dwarf sees perfectly with darkvision up to 60ft. Unless someone is actively hiding, no one would have concealment against him so he would not be prevented from dealing sneak attack damage. The specific qustion then, can a dwarf sneak attack someone whos only partially visable under moonlight.If the target is within 30ft feet (which meets both the range requirements... darkvision 60ft & sneak attack 30ft) and the sneak attack conditions are met, yes. I know a human cant, and i know an elf can. What about dwarf (whos not using darkvision) or could he turn it on really quick and then use it? What say you. The elf (assuming moonlight 20ft bright/21-40ft dim) would be able to sneak attack anyone within 20ft... further then that, the opponent would have concealment and negate any chance of sneak attack.
Daydreamer 03-22-07, 10:26 PM	merci
Lord Nedd 03-23-07, 12:09 PM	merci Je vous en prie.
Lotusblossom 03-24-07, 01:15 AM	The elf (assuming moonlight 20ft bright/21-40ft dim) would be able to sneak attack anyone within 20ft... further then that, the opponent would have concealment and negate any chance of sneak attack. Where does it say that moonlight provides bright light around you and then dim light around that? I think moonlight provides dim light everywhere, which means even elves and dragons and giant owls, with 2x, 4x, and 7x low-light vision, can't sneak attack in moonlight.
calronmoonflower 03-24-07, 02:36 AM	Where does it say that moonlight provides bright light around you and then dim light around that? I think moonlight provides dim light everywhere, which means even elves and dragons and giant owls, with 2x, 4x, and 7x low-light vision, can't sneak attack in moonlight. it would depends on how full the moon is. I can see fairly well under a full moon.
Frugal 03-24-07, 08:29 AM	Where does it say that moonlight provides bright light around you and then dim light around that? I think moonlight provides dim light everywhere, which means even elves and dragons and giant owls, with 2x, 4x, and 7x low-light vision, can't sneak attack in moonlight. I thought that the brighter in close was in relation to the example with the torch.