Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tasslehoff220 03-02-07, 08:01 PM	The description for sneak attack says that "A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies" Does this mean an elder brain can not be sneak attacked? My instict would be no as it has no descernable anatomy and thus can not be sneak attacked. I would also reject any arguement stating that having an exposed brain counts as discernable anatomy for 2 reasons. 1) Thats pretty much all there is so that would imply every attack is a crit. 2) It has dr, making that brain not actually be a weakpoint. Anyway, I would appreciate a second opinion on this. If you feel it can be sneak attacked what would you say are its weakpoints (discernable weakpoints). thanks in advance for the opinions
PenderGrass 03-02-07, 08:25 PM	Look at the Elder Brain's type(s), if the types indicate a lack of discernible anatomy, then you can deny sneak attacks on it. Methinks that you will find it susceptible to the rogue's sneak attack. :dragon: ****
tasslehoff220 03-02-07, 08:37 PM	Look at the Elder Brain's type(s), if the types indicate a lack of discernible anatomy, then you can deny sneak attacks on it. Methinks that you will find it susceptible to the rogue's sneak attack. :dragon: **** There was a reason I asked that if you felt it does have discernable anatomy to say where it's vitals lie. "A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack." The description says nothing about these monsters not having discernable anatomies, it says they do not have vitals. It says nothing about no creatures of any other type always having discernable anatomies. Hence my question, if you are right, where are its vitals, where would you sneak attack it.
olshanski_home 03-02-07, 09:56 PM	You didn't finish quoting that section. The next sentance clarifies that creatures that are immune to critical hits are immune to sneak attack. To find out if a specific monster is vulnerable to sneak attacks you'd have to look at that monster's exact write-up or its type and see if it is vulnearble to critical hits: When you are looking for rules that apply to PCs, the PHB is the place to look. If you are curious about a rule as it applies to a monster, check out the Monster Manual (or whatever has the elder brain). That source will tell if you if the creature is immune to sneak attacks. If you are the DM, you have access to the creature types, subtypes, and special abilities. "not vulnerable to critical hits" generally shows up in the specific monster entry or on the description of the creature type. Look up undead type or construct type or ooze type in the glossary or the back of the MM and you'll see what I mean. If a creature is immune to critical hits, it is also immune to sneak attacks. Look for the phrases: —Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain —Not subject to critical hits or flanking. —Not subject to critical hits or flanking. —Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. Some other creatures are not subject to critical hits based on special abilities. Most aberrations are subject to critical hits (mind flayers, chuul, choker, athach), but a few are not subject because of special qualities: Amorphous (Ex): A gibbering mouther is not subject to critical hits. It cannot be flanked. Neither mimic nor chaos beast seem to be immune to critical hits, so by the rules these can both be sneak attacked. With this information, hopefully you will consult the elder brain write-up and see whether or not it is subject to critical hits.
Bopple 03-02-07, 10:29 PM	Well, there will be certain inconsistencies you'd face when dealing with sneak-attack. Like your example of aberrant appearance/physiques, or thick-skin type DR(your normal attack could not penetrate the thick-skin, but how could you deal the damage to the vital organ?). But you'd better let it go and rule it literally, to avoid too much headache and bookkeeping.
TessarrianDM 03-02-07, 11:33 PM	An elder brain is an aberration and has no special immunities to sneak attacks or critical hits listed in its description. It can move and has a Dex score, meaning that it is possible to catch it flat-footed. Considering that it has Blindsight 240' and can detect all creatures whose minds are not shielded within 350', that may be difficult. It can be flanked, however, which allows sneak attack damage. As for where to sneak attack it, IT IS A BRAIN. Except for its tentacles, the entire thing is a "vital area".
TwiddleStootch 03-02-07, 11:49 PM	And a knife to the Cerebellum would have to hurt :D or the Temporal Lobe for that matter :P
PenderGrass 03-03-07, 02:37 AM	There was a reason I asked that if you felt it does have discernable anatomy to say where it's vitals lie. "A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack." The description says nothing about these monsters not having discernable anatomies, it says they do not have vitals. It says nothing about no creatures of any other type always having discernable anatomies. Hence my question, if you are right, where are its vitals, where would you sneak attack it. I think you are taking the description of "vital areas" too far. Heck, a "sneak attack" really no longer requires any actual sneaking. It is best to think of it as a "precise stirke that does more damage" and forget the rest. :dragon: ****
CharlieRock 03-03-07, 12:46 PM	I seen those movies where the giant brain from outer space starts eating people that are hanging out on the beaches and stuff. They had weak points. Either right underneath it, or smack dab in the middle. But, you gotta watch out for the brain juice. it may be radioactive. that'll turn you into a zombie before the sequel comes out.