Sneak attacks and Critical hits [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sneak attacks and Critical hits [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ElyasRavenwood
12-08-07, 11:17 PM I actually have two questions. If a rogue’s opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus (regardless of weather he has one) or if the rogue is flanking an opponent, the rogue gets to add his sneak attack damage to his attack right? If the rogue rolls a critical threat and confirms it with a melee attack on an opponent that the rogue is not flanking, and it has its dexterity bonus, does the rogue get to add his sneak attack damage on top of the double damage for the critical hit?

My second question is this: Is there a feat that raises the sneak attack dice from d6 to d8? If there is an “improved sneak attack” feat, where is it?

Any help would be appreciated, thank you
inthesto
12-08-07, 11:24 PM 1. No. Nowhere does it say or even imply that scoring a critical hit allows you to tack on sneak attack damage. There might be a feat that allows something like that in a splatbook somewhere, but I'm unsure at best.

2. No. I'm fairly sure the Improved Sneak Attack feat just adds 2d6 to your overall sneak attack damage.
StevenO
12-08-07, 11:27 PM I'm a little unsure of the exact starting question. Anytime a Sneak attack could apply you get to add that damage. If you score a critical you only add the SA bonus once IF SA conditions are met.

I don't know where a feat that increase SA from d6 to d8 may be located but I do have vague recollection that such does exsist. There is a feat that will allow a character to add SA damage to any critical scored independent of threatening a SA normally; this does NOT permit doubling SA damage.
Artector
12-08-07, 11:29 PM I actually have two questions. If a rogue’s opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus (regardless of weather he has one) or if the rogue is flanking an opponent, the rogue gets to add his sneak attack damage to his attack right?

Right.

If the rogue rolls a critical threat and confirms it with a melee attack on an opponent that the rogue is not flanking, and it has its dexterity bonus, does the rogue get to add his sneak attack damage on top of the double damage for the critical hit?

No, the rogue doesn't get sneak attack simply because he crits.

My second question is this: Is there a feat that raises the sneak attack dice from d6 to d8? If there is an “improved sneak attack” feat, where is it?

I believe Complete Adventurer has one that give you extra d6. There's at least one other that lets you reroll 1's on Sneak Attacks, I can't remember where it is though, might be in Tome of Battle.
hunterc311
12-08-07, 11:38 PM I don't know where a feat that increase SA from d6 to d8 may be located but I do have vague recollection that such does exsist.

You're thinking of the feat that increases your action point rolls from d6 to d8, Action Boost I think it is.

Also don't forget Craven, the feat that lets you add your level as a bonus to sneak attack damage.
Silvercrys
12-08-07, 11:44 PM There's a feat in the Book of Exalted Deeds that increases Sneak Attack dice size to d8's against evil opponents.

Other than that, Artector is correct. :D

EDIT: Except for the reroll 1's feat. That's in the Expanded Psionics Handbook.
ff6shadow
12-09-07, 12:02 AM Telling Blow from the PHII will add sneak attack damage to a critical hit.

Deadly Precision from the Expanded Psionics Handbook will let yo reroll ones on sneak attack die.

Craven from Champions of Ruin add 1 damage per character level to your sneak attack damage.

And from the Book of Exalted Deeds comes the feat Sacred Strike, an exalted feat that turns your sneak attack die into d8'd but only when used on evil creatures.
pmurray@bigpond.com
12-09-07, 07:58 PM If the rogue rolls a critical threat and confirms it with a melee attack on an opponent that the rogue is not flanking, and it has its dexterity bonus, does the rogue get to add his sneak attack damage on top of the double damage for the critical hit?

Not usually. There is, however, a feat in the PHBII that does let you to exactly this - it's called "Telling Blow".

I ran a getsalt rogue/warblade once with Telling Blow, TWF and improved crit with Kukris, and Blood in the Water stance. He made mincemeat out of anything vulnerable to criticals.

Fun for a while. But I retired him because everyone was running melee cannons, and built a "Gentle Rain" Shujenga/Sorcerer who had no weapon and no spells that did HP or ability damage. Maybe my favourite character ever, even though it was breif.
ElyasRavenwood
12-10-07, 05:29 PM Thank you gentlemen for your help.

If I understand things correctly, a rogue only applies his sneak attack dice to an attack where his opponent is either flanked or denied his dex bonus to ac (flat footed). If the rogue scores a critical hit with a weapon (lets say rapier) and confirms it, he only adds his sneak attack dice to the damage if his target is flanked or denied his dex bonus to ac. Otherwise he simply follows the weapons critical multiplier.

The exception to this is the Telling Blow feat from the PHB 2.

Thanks for also for the heads up on the deadly precision feat, the Craven feat from Champions of ruin, and the Sacred strike feat. Gives me some stuff to chew on.

Thanks
StevenO
12-10-07, 06:23 PM I believe you now have it.
deathbane
12-10-07, 06:54 PM I actually have two questions. If a rogue’s opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus (regardless of weather he has one) or if the rogue is flanking an opponent, the rogue gets to add his sneak attack damage to his attack right? If the rogue rolls a critical threat and confirms it with a melee attack on an opponent that the rogue is not flanking, and it has its dexterity bonus, does the rogue get to add his sneak attack damage on top of the double damage for the critical hit?

My second question is this: Is there a feat that raises the sneak attack dice from d6 to d8? If there is an “improved sneak attack” feat, where is it?

Any help would be appreciated, thank you

There is a feat that give you d8 sneak attack, but it is not an official WOTC book. If your DM allows it I may be able to find the name of the book. A guy in my group has it.
pmurray@bigpond.com
12-10-07, 11:30 PM Oh - note that sneak attack die are not multiplied on a critical - you just add them. In general, critical hits multiply fixed bonuses (like a strength bonus), but not die rolls (such as sneak attack die or energy damage).
Praxian
12-11-07, 06:01 PM There is a feat that give you d8 sneak attack, but it is not an official WOTC book. If your DM allows it I may be able to find the name of the book. A guy in my group has it.

Correct. It's a brown book full of generic d20 feats (something similar for the name of it too - lol).

Great book, lots of pretty nice and good stuff. I actually like some of the armored and unarmored bonuses it has for chars in there, but I wander.
DastardlyDan
12-26-07, 01:22 PM Oh - note that sneak attack die are not multiplied on a critical - you just add them. In general, critical hits multiply fixed bonuses (like a strength bonus), but not die rolls (such as sneak attack die or energy damage).

Crits don't only multiply fixed bonuses.

Sneak Attack/Sudden Strike/Skirmish abilities don't get multiplied, they get rolled normally in addition to the critical damage. So you roll your normal weapon damage twice, add your strength modifier twice, add any enhancement bonus to damage twice, THEN roll your extra damage normally.

This also applies to extra damage from spells, such as Shock weapons. The extra dice from the elemental damage is rolled normally, not doubled.

Just wanted to clarify, the original post was a bit unclear.
darokinblade
12-27-07, 09:49 AM The book that I first saw the d6's to d8's is in Quintessential Rogue, by Green Ronin Publishing. I have since banned those books from my table, aside from being broken, there flavor they use for art and style just seems wrong.
Praxian
12-27-07, 10:32 AM The book that I first saw the d6's to d8's is in Quintessential Rogue, by Green Ronin Publishing. I have since banned those books from my table, aside from being broken, there flavor they use for art and style just seems wrong.

Having looked through a number of Green Ronin books (and left 'em on the shelves) for the most part I'd have to agree to you. They're more geared towards players getting more power, quicker, faster, better than they were before.... (errm... eep?)

Anyways, the only GR book I own is the one about the Drow and I still don't even allow players to use it, as I use it for some of the various information in it (equipment, prices on certain things in the underdark, etc.).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ElyasRavenwood 12-08-07, 11:17 PM	I actually have two questions. If a rogue’s opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus (regardless of weather he has one) or if the rogue is flanking an opponent, the rogue gets to add his sneak attack damage to his attack right? If the rogue rolls a critical threat and confirms it with a melee attack on an opponent that the rogue is not flanking, and it has its dexterity bonus, does the rogue get to add his sneak attack damage on top of the double damage for the critical hit? My second question is this: Is there a feat that raises the sneak attack dice from d6 to d8? If there is an “improved sneak attack” feat, where is it? Any help would be appreciated, thank you
inthesto 12-08-07, 11:24 PM	1. No. Nowhere does it say or even imply that scoring a critical hit allows you to tack on sneak attack damage. There might be a feat that allows something like that in a splatbook somewhere, but I'm unsure at best. 2. No. I'm fairly sure the Improved Sneak Attack feat just adds 2d6 to your overall sneak attack damage.
StevenO 12-08-07, 11:27 PM	I'm a little unsure of the exact starting question. Anytime a Sneak attack could apply you get to add that damage. If you score a critical you only add the SA bonus once IF SA conditions are met. I don't know where a feat that increase SA from d6 to d8 may be located but I do have vague recollection that such does exsist. There is a feat that will allow a character to add SA damage to any critical scored independent of threatening a SA normally; this does NOT permit doubling SA damage.
Artector 12-08-07, 11:29 PM	I actually have two questions. If a rogue’s opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus (regardless of weather he has one) or if the rogue is flanking an opponent, the rogue gets to add his sneak attack damage to his attack right? Right. If the rogue rolls a critical threat and confirms it with a melee attack on an opponent that the rogue is not flanking, and it has its dexterity bonus, does the rogue get to add his sneak attack damage on top of the double damage for the critical hit? No, the rogue doesn't get sneak attack simply because he crits. My second question is this: Is there a feat that raises the sneak attack dice from d6 to d8? If there is an “improved sneak attack” feat, where is it? I believe Complete Adventurer has one that give you extra d6. There's at least one other that lets you reroll 1's on Sneak Attacks, I can't remember where it is though, might be in Tome of Battle.
hunterc311 12-08-07, 11:38 PM	I don't know where a feat that increase SA from d6 to d8 may be located but I do have vague recollection that such does exsist. You're thinking of the feat that increases your action point rolls from d6 to d8, Action Boost I think it is. Also don't forget Craven, the feat that lets you add your level as a bonus to sneak attack damage.
Silvercrys 12-08-07, 11:44 PM	There's a feat in the Book of Exalted Deeds that increases Sneak Attack dice size to d8's against evil opponents. Other than that, Artector is correct. :D EDIT: Except for the reroll 1's feat. That's in the Expanded Psionics Handbook.
ff6shadow 12-09-07, 12:02 AM	Telling Blow from the PHII will add sneak attack damage to a critical hit. Deadly Precision from the Expanded Psionics Handbook will let yo reroll ones on sneak attack die. Craven from Champions of Ruin add 1 damage per character level to your sneak attack damage. And from the Book of Exalted Deeds comes the feat Sacred Strike, an exalted feat that turns your sneak attack die into d8'd but only when used on evil creatures.
pmurray@bigpond.com 12-09-07, 07:58 PM	If the rogue rolls a critical threat and confirms it with a melee attack on an opponent that the rogue is not flanking, and it has its dexterity bonus, does the rogue get to add his sneak attack damage on top of the double damage for the critical hit? Not usually. There is, however, a feat in the PHBII that does let you to exactly this - it's called "Telling Blow". I ran a getsalt rogue/warblade once with Telling Blow, TWF and improved crit with Kukris, and Blood in the Water stance. He made mincemeat out of anything vulnerable to criticals. Fun for a while. But I retired him because everyone was running melee cannons, and built a "Gentle Rain" Shujenga/Sorcerer who had no weapon and no spells that did HP or ability damage. Maybe my favourite character ever, even though it was breif.
ElyasRavenwood 12-10-07, 05:29 PM	Thank you gentlemen for your help. If I understand things correctly, a rogue only applies his sneak attack dice to an attack where his opponent is either flanked or denied his dex bonus to ac (flat footed). If the rogue scores a critical hit with a weapon (lets say rapier) and confirms it, he only adds his sneak attack dice to the damage if his target is flanked or denied his dex bonus to ac. Otherwise he simply follows the weapons critical multiplier. The exception to this is the Telling Blow feat from the PHB 2. Thanks for also for the heads up on the deadly precision feat, the Craven feat from Champions of ruin, and the Sacred strike feat. Gives me some stuff to chew on. Thanks
StevenO 12-10-07, 06:23 PM	I believe you now have it.
deathbane 12-10-07, 06:54 PM	I actually have two questions. If a rogue’s opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus (regardless of weather he has one) or if the rogue is flanking an opponent, the rogue gets to add his sneak attack damage to his attack right? If the rogue rolls a critical threat and confirms it with a melee attack on an opponent that the rogue is not flanking, and it has its dexterity bonus, does the rogue get to add his sneak attack damage on top of the double damage for the critical hit? My second question is this: Is there a feat that raises the sneak attack dice from d6 to d8? If there is an “improved sneak attack” feat, where is it? Any help would be appreciated, thank you There is a feat that give you d8 sneak attack, but it is not an official WOTC book. If your DM allows it I may be able to find the name of the book. A guy in my group has it.
pmurray@bigpond.com 12-10-07, 11:30 PM	Oh - note that sneak attack die are not multiplied on a critical - you just add them. In general, critical hits multiply fixed bonuses (like a strength bonus), but not die rolls (such as sneak attack die or energy damage).
Praxian 12-11-07, 06:01 PM	There is a feat that give you d8 sneak attack, but it is not an official WOTC book. If your DM allows it I may be able to find the name of the book. A guy in my group has it. Correct. It's a brown book full of generic d20 feats (something similar for the name of it too - lol). Great book, lots of pretty nice and good stuff. I actually like some of the armored and unarmored bonuses it has for chars in there, but I wander.
DastardlyDan 12-26-07, 01:22 PM	Oh - note that sneak attack die are not multiplied on a critical - you just add them. In general, critical hits multiply fixed bonuses (like a strength bonus), but not die rolls (such as sneak attack die or energy damage). Crits don't only multiply fixed bonuses. Sneak Attack/Sudden Strike/Skirmish abilities don't get multiplied, they get rolled normally in addition to the critical damage. So you roll your normal weapon damage twice, add your strength modifier twice, add any enhancement bonus to damage twice, THEN roll your extra damage normally. This also applies to extra damage from spells, such as Shock weapons. The extra dice from the elemental damage is rolled normally, not doubled. Just wanted to clarify, the original post was a bit unclear.
darokinblade 12-27-07, 09:49 AM	The book that I first saw the d6's to d8's is in Quintessential Rogue, by Green Ronin Publishing. I have since banned those books from my table, aside from being broken, there flavor they use for art and style just seems wrong.
Praxian 12-27-07, 10:32 AM	The book that I first saw the d6's to d8's is in Quintessential Rogue, by Green Ronin Publishing. I have since banned those books from my table, aside from being broken, there flavor they use for art and style just seems wrong. Having looked through a number of Green Ronin books (and left 'em on the shelves) for the most part I'd have to agree to you. They're more geared towards players getting more power, quicker, faster, better than they were before.... (errm... eep?) Anyways, the only GR book I own is the one about the Drow and I still don't even allow players to use it, as I use it for some of the various information in it (equipment, prices on certain things in the underdark, etc.).