Speed weapons and quick draw. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Speed weapons and quick draw. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nrg_89
05-11-07, 03:23 AM Can you use the quick draw feat to switch weapons during a full attack (for example, you have base attack bonus +16, and after you're four attacks you switch to a another weapon)?
And if you can, if that weapon has speed, would you get the extra attack?
And if that's a yes, would you be able to switch to another weapon with the speed enhancment and do another attack?

For example, I full attack with a falchion, switch to a scimitar of speed after the four attacks and then switch to a dagger of speed.
Nom
05-11-07, 06:18 AM (1) Yes.

(2) I wouldn't allow it, since the extra attack is taken at full BAB and attacks go in order of decreasing BAB. Similarly, I wouldn't allow the "extra" attack unless you have already made one attack with the weapon.

(3) No, because both haste and speed grant a single extra attack.
goawayugh
05-11-07, 08:36 AM Keep in mind though, sheathing a weapon is a move action. If you wanted to "switch" weapons, you would have to drop the first and quick draw the second, leaving your first weapon on the ground (not good if your going to move from that spot later in the encounter).
crashlogic
05-11-07, 01:03 PM A speed weapon give you an extra attack if you make a full attack with it. If, assuming for arguments sake you could switch weapons in the middle of a full attack, you would not get the extra attack since you were not making a full attack with the speed weapon.

In general, actions do not interrupt other actions. The exception to this is some attacks of opportunity. Som e actions you can perform while doing other actions, such as moving and drawing a sword. But you don't interrupt the action midstream.

Thus full attack is its own action, and muct be completed before perfoming another action, even a free one. You can perform a free action before or after a full attack action, but not during.
goawayugh
05-11-07, 01:14 PM full attack is its own action, and muct be completed before perfoming another action, even a free one. You can perform a free action before or after a full attack action, but not during.

Very good point, I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, you can't use a free action in the middle of another action.
Someone
05-11-07, 02:00 PM Technically, yes, you can make free actions during a full attack, because in some cases its mandatory. Stuff like readying a bow or quickloading a crossbow are free actions that are needed when you make a full attack with the weapon. The same goes for quickdrawing thrown weapons.
Inigo Carmine
05-11-07, 02:01 PM Thus full attack is its own action, and muct be completed before perfoming another action, even a free one. You can perform a free action before or after a full attack action, but not during.

Do you have a quote on that one? That means that those who use ranged weapons can never get a full attack off.

From the SRD
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.
mvincent
05-11-07, 02:03 PM full attack is its own action, and muct be completed before perfoming another action, even a free one. You can perform a free action before or after a full attack action, but not during.That appears to be incorrect. From the 3.5 FAQ:
"A character with a base attack bonus of +6 or better holding
a longsword, for example, could make a melee attack with the
longsword (using his full base attack bonus), drop the
longsword (a free action), use Quick Draw to draw a dagger
(another free action), then throw the dagger (using his base
attack bonus –5). If the character had both hands free (for
instance, if he didn’t carry a light or heavy shield in his off
hand), he could even use Quick Draw to draw a bow (free
action), draw and nock an arrow (free action) and then shoot
the bow (using his base attack bonus –5)."
mvincent
05-11-07, 02:09 PM Can you use the quick draw feat to switch weapons during a full attack (for example, you have base attack bonus +16, and after you're four attacks you switch to a another weapon)?Yes.

if that weapon has speed, would you get the extra attack?Possibly (assuming you have not already taken an additional attack already from Speed or Haste). I'd ask your DM (I would probably not allow it myself).

would you be able to switch to another weapon with the speed enhancment and do another attack?You could not get the extra bonus attack multiple times (so no... you could not use up 50 speed shuriken in a single round)
crashlogic
05-11-07, 02:20 PM That appears to be incorrect. From the 3.5 FAQ:
"A character with a base attack bonus of +6 or better holding
a longsword, for example, could make a melee attack with the
longsword (using his full base attack bonus), drop the
longsword (a free action), use Quick Draw to draw a dagger
(another free action), then throw the dagger (using his base
attack bonus –5). If the character had both hands free (for
instance, if he didn’t carry a light or heavy shield in his off
hand), he could even use Quick Draw to draw a bow (free
action), draw and nock an arrow (free action) and then shoot
the bow (using his base attack bonus –5)."

I stand corrected then. I still would not allow it in my game (I consider knocking an arrow, or loading a cross bow as incidental actions to the attack, and not free actions. Just like a single melee attack does mean single swing of the sword. It never occurred to me to think of knocking an arrow and drawing the bow as something different than making the attack.
BigJohn42
05-15-07, 12:51 PM Considering that the purpose of a weapon of speed is that they get to go really fast, and that the effect is an extra attack at full BAB, I would rule that they would have to at least start their full attack with the speed weapon, if they wanted the extra attack. I would probably further houserule that they'd have to take at least one of their "normal" attacks with their speed weapon (thus dedicating the weapon as part of the full-attack action).

Example: JoeBob has a scimtar of speed and a longsword sheathed, and a BAB of +6/+1. JoeBob could quickdraw the scimtar at the beginning of his action, then:
- Take three attacks with the scimtar (+6/+6/+1).
- Take two attacks with the scimtar (+6/+6), then quickdraw a longsword for his last attack (+1). The scimitar could either be dropped or put into JoeBob's off-hand.
- Take one attack with the scimtar (+6), move the scimtar to his off-hand and quickdraw a longsword for his second attack (+6), then make his last attack with the scimtar (+1). It would be reasonable for the DM to make JoeBob drop the longsword to make this last attack (although, as I understand it, not strictly RAW).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nrg_89 05-11-07, 03:23 AM	Can you use the quick draw feat to switch weapons during a full attack (for example, you have base attack bonus +16, and after you're four attacks you switch to a another weapon)? And if you can, if that weapon has speed, would you get the extra attack? And if that's a yes, would you be able to switch to another weapon with the speed enhancment and do another attack? For example, I full attack with a falchion, switch to a scimitar of speed after the four attacks and then switch to a dagger of speed.
Nom 05-11-07, 06:18 AM	(1) Yes. (2) I wouldn't allow it, since the extra attack is taken at full BAB and attacks go in order of decreasing BAB. Similarly, I wouldn't allow the "extra" attack unless you have already made one attack with the weapon. (3) No, because both haste and speed grant a single extra attack.
goawayugh 05-11-07, 08:36 AM	Keep in mind though, sheathing a weapon is a move action. If you wanted to "switch" weapons, you would have to drop the first and quick draw the second, leaving your first weapon on the ground (not good if your going to move from that spot later in the encounter).
crashlogic 05-11-07, 01:03 PM	A speed weapon give you an extra attack if you make a full attack with it. If, assuming for arguments sake you could switch weapons in the middle of a full attack, you would not get the extra attack since you were not making a full attack with the speed weapon. In general, actions do not interrupt other actions. The exception to this is some attacks of opportunity. Som e actions you can perform while doing other actions, such as moving and drawing a sword. But you don't interrupt the action midstream. Thus full attack is its own action, and muct be completed before perfoming another action, even a free one. You can perform a free action before or after a full attack action, but not during.
goawayugh 05-11-07, 01:14 PM	full attack is its own action, and muct be completed before perfoming another action, even a free one. You can perform a free action before or after a full attack action, but not during. Very good point, I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, you can't use a free action in the middle of another action.
Someone 05-11-07, 02:00 PM	Technically, yes, you can make free actions during a full attack, because in some cases its mandatory. Stuff like readying a bow or quickloading a crossbow are free actions that are needed when you make a full attack with the weapon. The same goes for quickdrawing thrown weapons.
Inigo Carmine 05-11-07, 02:01 PM	Thus full attack is its own action, and muct be completed before perfoming another action, even a free one. You can perform a free action before or after a full attack action, but not during. Do you have a quote on that one? That means that those who use ranged weapons can never get a full attack off. From the SRD Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.
mvincent 05-11-07, 02:03 PM	full attack is its own action, and muct be completed before perfoming another action, even a free one. You can perform a free action before or after a full attack action, but not during.That appears to be incorrect. From the 3.5 FAQ: "A character with a base attack bonus of +6 or better holding a longsword, for example, could make a melee attack with the longsword (using his full base attack bonus), drop the longsword (a free action), use Quick Draw to draw a dagger (another free action), then throw the dagger (using his base attack bonus –5). If the character had both hands free (for instance, if he didn’t carry a light or heavy shield in his off hand), he could even use Quick Draw to draw a bow (free action), draw and nock an arrow (free action) and then shoot the bow (using his base attack bonus –5)."
mvincent 05-11-07, 02:09 PM	Can you use the quick draw feat to switch weapons during a full attack (for example, you have base attack bonus +16, and after you're four attacks you switch to a another weapon)?Yes. if that weapon has speed, would you get the extra attack?Possibly (assuming you have not already taken an additional attack already from Speed or Haste). I'd ask your DM (I would probably not allow it myself). would you be able to switch to another weapon with the speed enhancment and do another attack?You could not get the extra bonus attack multiple times (so no... you could not use up 50 speed shuriken in a single round)
crashlogic 05-11-07, 02:20 PM	That appears to be incorrect. From the 3.5 FAQ: "A character with a base attack bonus of +6 or better holding a longsword, for example, could make a melee attack with the longsword (using his full base attack bonus), drop the longsword (a free action), use Quick Draw to draw a dagger (another free action), then throw the dagger (using his base attack bonus –5). If the character had both hands free (for instance, if he didn’t carry a light or heavy shield in his off hand), he could even use Quick Draw to draw a bow (free action), draw and nock an arrow (free action) and then shoot the bow (using his base attack bonus –5)." I stand corrected then. I still would not allow it in my game (I consider knocking an arrow, or loading a cross bow as incidental actions to the attack, and not free actions. Just like a single melee attack does mean single swing of the sword. It never occurred to me to think of knocking an arrow and drawing the bow as something different than making the attack.
BigJohn42 05-15-07, 12:51 PM	Considering that the purpose of a weapon of speed is that they get to go really fast, and that the effect is an extra attack at full BAB, I would rule that they would have to at least start their full attack with the speed weapon, if they wanted the extra attack. I would probably further houserule that they'd have to take at least one of their "normal" attacks with their speed weapon (thus dedicating the weapon as part of the full-attack action). Example: JoeBob has a scimtar of speed and a longsword sheathed, and a BAB of +6/+1. JoeBob could quickdraw the scimtar at the beginning of his action, then: - Take three attacks with the scimtar (+6/+6/+1). - Take two attacks with the scimtar (+6/+6), then quickdraw a longsword for his last attack (+1). The scimitar could either be dropped or put into JoeBob's off-hand. - Take one attack with the scimtar (+6), move the scimtar to his off-hand and quickdraw a longsword for his second attack (+6), then make his last attack with the scimtar (+1). It would be reasonable for the DM to make JoeBob drop the longsword to make this last attack (although, as I understand it, not strictly RAW).