spiritual weapon [Archive] - Wizards Community

spiritual weapon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eightbitmage
05-01-07, 11:15 AM Does it get AoOs? The book doesn't say. Its a spell so I'm tempted to say no, but my player wants it to so I decided to check.

Also if there are any strange situations that could come up when it comes to this spell in anyone's experience please tell me. The player in question really really (really really really really really really) likes this spell and casts it often.
artgrtr8u
05-01-07, 11:46 AM I would agree that it does not get AoOs.

As an option, you could allow the player to use a move action (if he has one available) to make an AoO with the weapon.
Phrennzy
05-01-07, 11:54 AM I'd have to say No, it doesn't not get AoO, based on two things:

1. The size bonus given shows the weapon as 'Tiny' which means it has a reach of 0. Tiny creatures do not threaten outside their own space. (The "and has the same threat range and critical multipliers as a real weapon of its form" statement means that the weapon will critically threaten on a 19-20 or 20, whichever is appropriate for the weapon, and has nothing to do with Threatening squares.)

2. The fact that it does not assist in flanking bonuses.

It is not a thinking weapon, it is merely an automated weapon repeatedly performing the same job.
Merestil Haye
05-01-07, 12:35 PM It's not a weapon you are wielding, but a spell. Thus it does not threaten anything.Does a spiritual weapon get to make attacks of opportunity?

Actually, since the spell indicates specifically that spiritual weapon strikes as a spell, and not a weapon, it is not allowed an attack of opportunity when normally provoked. Likewise, the technical definition of an attack of opportunity requires that you threaten the opponent in question (see PHB page 137). While you do direct the spiritual weapon to attack, you are not technically wielding the weapon, and so you do not threaten the square into which it is attacking.
Eightbitmage
05-01-07, 12:55 PM Ok, thanks. This will probably make my player a bit sad.
Phrennzy
05-01-07, 01:15 PM Ok, thanks. This will probably make my player a bit sad.

Give him a hug right after you tell him.

Then tell him to make a new spell - Greater Spiritual Weapon - that grants the sword an AoO and the equivalent of a +1 enchant (flaming/icy/etc) - and it's a 4th level spell.
olshanski_home
05-01-07, 02:26 PM Phrennzy and Merestil Haye are both correct above.
Note also that the weapon does force damage, not slashing damage, which penetrates DR and can hit incorporeal creatures... that's not too shabby.

I think spiritual weapon is not a bad spell for low level cleric mooks to have. If you get about 5-6 3rd level clerics casting 1 or 2 of these against a party wizard or rogue, you are going to put them in a world of hurt.

Sorry to change the subject:

Phrennzy, when the hell are you going to come to the forums at www.dndarchive.com? (http://www.dndarchive.com/phpbb/index.php)

Merestil Haye, that goes for you also, (even if you do correct my rules errors on occasion).
Merestil Haye
05-01-07, 03:56 PM Merestil Haye, that goes for you also, (even if you do correct my rules errors on occasion).Thanks for the link *sticks his nose in and pokes around.*
Inigo Carmine
05-01-07, 04:46 PM <Inigo gets up on soapbox>

Ahem.

Personally, I have slightly houseruled this spell to be more consistant and understandable.

I treat it in all ways as a ranged attack (despite the physical appearance of said weapon; it can look like an axe or sword). This falls into place with the spell description of not flanking, always requiring line of sight between caster and target, you don't lose attacks when the target changes its position (within the spell's range), and the fact that it hovers near you if its not attacking anyone. This also clears up the issue of AoOs (ie: no). It still uses wisdom not dex though for the attack roll.

Also, since the damage is fixed, I only allow 19-20/x2 and 20/x3 criticals, otherwise having 18-20/x2 and 20/x4 weapons become a large advantage.

As I said, these tread into the houserule area. I've always found this to be a neat little spell, but it suffers from some very specific gaps in information. I believe these resolve those issues while maintaining the balance and flavor of the spell.

Thank you.
<Inigo gets off soapbox>
Morray
05-17-07, 10:15 AM I have a question on spiritual weapon that sorta follows this.

If the creature it's attacking flees, what's the movement rate of the weapon? It's suppose to continue attacking the target it was given untill it's out of range, but even fleeing it is still in range so does it get to follow at the same speed getting 1 attack or does it take the caster's speed rate?
Inigo Carmine
05-17-07, 11:38 AM The weapon doesn't have a move speed. If an enemy is in range, it full attacks them. Whether the enemy stands still or moves 30 ft doesn't matter. This is one of the reasons why I say the mechanics closely resemble a ranged attack.
Morray
05-17-07, 01:19 PM The weapon doesn't have a move speed. If an enemy is in range, it full attacks them. Whether the enemy stands still or moves 30 ft doesn't matter. This is one of the reasons why I say the mechanics closely resemble a ranged attack.

So does that mean, if it's moved but is still in the spells range it gets a full attack? It's a high level game so the spells range is almost 200ft. But the creature has move 60ft away from the weapon.
Phrennzy
05-18-07, 09:19 AM If you initially target the Evil Wizard with the Spiritual Weapon when it's first cast, the Spiritual Weapon will follow the Evil Wizard, getting a full attack, regardless of how far he moves, as long as he stays within range of the spell.

If the wizard teleports, but remains withing range of the spell, the Spiritual Weapon follows him and still gets a Full Attack, regardless of how far the Weapon would have to move to reach the wizard.

To sum it up: It takes no time whatsoever for the Spiritual Weapon to follow a target, as long as the target remains within Spell Range.

The only time the Spiritual Weapon would not get the Full Attack action is if you switch targets (a move action) in which case it gets only one single attack that round.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eightbitmage 05-01-07, 11:15 AM	Does it get AoOs? The book doesn't say. Its a spell so I'm tempted to say no, but my player wants it to so I decided to check. Also if there are any strange situations that could come up when it comes to this spell in anyone's experience please tell me. The player in question really really (really really really really really really) likes this spell and casts it often.
artgrtr8u 05-01-07, 11:46 AM	I would agree that it does not get AoOs. As an option, you could allow the player to use a move action (if he has one available) to make an AoO with the weapon.
Phrennzy 05-01-07, 11:54 AM	I'd have to say No, it doesn't not get AoO, based on two things: 1. The size bonus given shows the weapon as 'Tiny' which means it has a reach of 0. Tiny creatures do not threaten outside their own space. (The "and has the same threat range and critical multipliers as a real weapon of its form" statement means that the weapon will critically threaten on a 19-20 or 20, whichever is appropriate for the weapon, and has nothing to do with Threatening squares.) 2. The fact that it does not assist in flanking bonuses. It is not a thinking weapon, it is merely an automated weapon repeatedly performing the same job.
Merestil Haye 05-01-07, 12:35 PM	It's not a weapon you are wielding, but a spell. Thus it does not threaten anything.Does a spiritual weapon get to make attacks of opportunity? Actually, since the spell indicates specifically that spiritual weapon strikes as a spell, and not a weapon, it is not allowed an attack of opportunity when normally provoked. Likewise, the technical definition of an attack of opportunity requires that you threaten the opponent in question (see PHB page 137). While you do direct the spiritual weapon to attack, you are not technically wielding the weapon, and so you do not threaten the square into which it is attacking.
Eightbitmage 05-01-07, 12:55 PM	Ok, thanks. This will probably make my player a bit sad.
Phrennzy 05-01-07, 01:15 PM	Ok, thanks. This will probably make my player a bit sad. Give him a hug right after you tell him. Then tell him to make a new spell - Greater Spiritual Weapon - that grants the sword an AoO and the equivalent of a +1 enchant (flaming/icy/etc) - and it's a 4th level spell.
olshanski_home 05-01-07, 02:26 PM	Phrennzy and Merestil Haye are both correct above. Note also that the weapon does force damage, not slashing damage, which penetrates DR and can hit incorporeal creatures... that's not too shabby. I think spiritual weapon is not a bad spell for low level cleric mooks to have. If you get about 5-6 3rd level clerics casting 1 or 2 of these against a party wizard or rogue, you are going to put them in a world of hurt. Sorry to change the subject: Phrennzy, when the hell are you going to come to the forums at www.dndarchive.com? (http://www.dndarchive.com/phpbb/index.php) Merestil Haye, that goes for you also, (even if you do correct my rules errors on occasion).
Merestil Haye 05-01-07, 03:56 PM	Merestil Haye, that goes for you also, (even if you do correct my rules errors on occasion).Thanks for the link sticks his nose in and pokes around.
Inigo Carmine 05-01-07, 04:46 PM	<Inigo gets up on soapbox> Ahem. Personally, I have slightly houseruled this spell to be more consistant and understandable. I treat it in all ways as a ranged attack (despite the physical appearance of said weapon; it can look like an axe or sword). This falls into place with the spell description of not flanking, always requiring line of sight between caster and target, you don't lose attacks when the target changes its position (within the spell's range), and the fact that it hovers near you if its not attacking anyone. This also clears up the issue of AoOs (ie: no). It still uses wisdom not dex though for the attack roll. Also, since the damage is fixed, I only allow 19-20/x2 and 20/x3 criticals, otherwise having 18-20/x2 and 20/x4 weapons become a large advantage. As I said, these tread into the houserule area. I've always found this to be a neat little spell, but it suffers from some very specific gaps in information. I believe these resolve those issues while maintaining the balance and flavor of the spell. Thank you. <Inigo gets off soapbox>
Morray 05-17-07, 10:15 AM	I have a question on spiritual weapon that sorta follows this. If the creature it's attacking flees, what's the movement rate of the weapon? It's suppose to continue attacking the target it was given untill it's out of range, but even fleeing it is still in range so does it get to follow at the same speed getting 1 attack or does it take the caster's speed rate?
Inigo Carmine 05-17-07, 11:38 AM	The weapon doesn't have a move speed. If an enemy is in range, it full attacks them. Whether the enemy stands still or moves 30 ft doesn't matter. This is one of the reasons why I say the mechanics closely resemble a ranged attack.
Morray 05-17-07, 01:19 PM	The weapon doesn't have a move speed. If an enemy is in range, it full attacks them. Whether the enemy stands still or moves 30 ft doesn't matter. This is one of the reasons why I say the mechanics closely resemble a ranged attack. So does that mean, if it's moved but is still in the spells range it gets a full attack? It's a high level game so the spells range is almost 200ft. But the creature has move 60ft away from the weapon.
Phrennzy 05-18-07, 09:19 AM	If you initially target the Evil Wizard with the Spiritual Weapon when it's first cast, the Spiritual Weapon will follow the Evil Wizard, getting a full attack, regardless of how far he moves, as long as he stays within range of the spell. If the wizard teleports, but remains withing range of the spell, the Spiritual Weapon follows him and still gets a Full Attack, regardless of how far the Weapon would have to move to reach the wizard. To sum it up: It takes no time whatsoever for the Spiritual Weapon to follow a target, as long as the target remains within Spell Range. The only time the Spiritual Weapon would not get the Full Attack action is if you switch targets (a move action) in which case it gets only one single attack that round.