Sports mini-games, need a little help tweeking them. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sports mini-games, need a little help tweeking them. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wolfvyn
09-03-07, 04:28 PM Alright in my campaign the party is about to head off on a long and hopefully frustrating adventure into the underdark. So as a little gift and because I thought it would be fun I decided to offer them the chance to take part in an athletics competition being held by their neighborhood temple of Kord. There is going to be a high jump, long jump, shot put, javelin, tug of war, a rugby like game, an obstacle course, boxing, wrestling and a free style pit fight.

Now what I need a little help with are the boxing, wrestling and the rugby like game.

one of the rules for the competition is that no magic, magic items or special, meaning spell-like or supernatural, can be used. I haven't quite decided on if I would allow extraordinary abilities to be used or not. Right now I'm leaning towards allowing all but a few specific ones.

Anyway the party is level 11 so to make the boxing match a a little more fun and not take all day to resolve I added a rock, paper and scissor style of extra options they could take. Here they are:

Counter: First you prepare an action to counter and when the opponent makes his attack you roll a sense motive check. You can use your BaB or you sense motive skill, which ever is higher, to make the check. If you beat the sense motive check by 5 or more and then make a reflex save DC 13 you successfully dodge his attack and deliver a counter punch that does double damage and catches the opponent flat footed. The DC of the save goes up by 2 very time you accumulate 20% of you max hp as damage. Meaning everytim your hp drops by 20% of it's max and for every 20% of subdual damage you rack up. If you interrupt an opponents full attack with a counter the opponent much make a concentration check equal to 10+damage dealt or lose the rest of his attacks. Every unarmed fighting feat that you have grants a cumulative +1 bonus to your sense motive check to counter. yes you can add sneak attack damage to a counter punch, but I haven't decided if I will allow for full sneak attack to be added of if I'll knock it down to half extra dice damage, rounded up. Meaning if you have +3d6 sneak attack you'd deal +2d6.

Haymaker: As a full round action you can put all you weight into a singl devastating punch. You take a -5 penalty on your attack roll and you deal double damage. In addition you and your target make opposed strength checks. If you get a higher result than your opponent he must make a concentration check equal to 10+damage dealt or be stunned for one round. If you beat the target by five or more he falls prone and must make a dc 13 fort save to get back up, if he fails he looses. The DC increases by 2 for each fall and for every 20% of max hp damage accumulated. Again meaning every time your hp drops by 20% or for every 20% of subdual damage you rack up.

Guard: as an immediate action you can guard. Guarding raises your ac by five, reduces damage by half and gives a +4 bonus on opposed strength checks from a Haymaker. However guarding costs you a turn. Basically if you guard you lose your next turn.

Cheap shot/low blow: I have no idea for this one. A couple of my players said they would be interested in this type of option, but I have no idea what to make it. A sleight of hand check to catch an opponent off guard? AS of right now I have no plans of including an option like this, but if any of you come up with a good suggestion I'll take it into consideration.

Wrestling: Obviously this will be handled by grappling. But to make it go a little quick I thought I would add a new option and a couple different ways to win. you can win by either moving your opponent out of the ring, by pinning him for three consecutive rounds, when your opponent surrenders or fails unconscious.

Now for the surrendering part I was thinking of adding a submission option. While you have your opponent pinned and when ever you beat him with an opposed grapple check by 5 or more you can then attempt to put him into a submission hold. You and your opponent roll opposed strength checks and if you beat him then you put him into a submission hold. every unarmed fighting feat you have gives you a +1 bonus. He then must make a fort save equal to 5 + 1/2 your characters level + either your str or dex mod or tap out. The fort save Dc increases by two for every round you have him in submission.

Now comes the tough one, the rugby like game. Basically everything but dealing actual damage would be allowed. So you can trip, bullrush, overrun, grapple, ect. You have to get the ball into the opposing teams endzone. Just getting it here gives you one point. behind the endzone will be a small hoop that you can attempt to through the ball through. If you succeed you get five points, if you miss then you get no points, even if you managed to get into the endzone. the ball will have a range increment of 10 feet. You can pass the ball, which is basically a ranged touch attack to get the ball to the other player and then they have to make a reflex save in order to catch it. Still trying to work this one out so it's less clunky and everyone has a reasonble chance at success with out success being guaranteed for some. At the moment I have no idea how this game will play out. Has anyone ever done anything simular? How did it work out and what rules did you use?

Now the free style pit fight is going to be no holds barred, so although magic items will not be allowed I'm thinking of allowing magic and special abilities in this one. Should I allow everyone to use all they have in this particular competition?
BigJohn42
09-03-07, 09:29 PM Cheap shot/low blow: I have no idea for this one. A couple of my players said they would be interested in this type of option, but I have no idea what to make it. A sleight of hand check to catch an opponent off guard? AS of right now I have no plans of including an option like this, but if any of you come up with a good suggestion I'll take it into consideration.

I've gotta say that I LOVE this concept, over-all. Unfortunately, I only have a couple of suggestions. First thing I'd do is divide cheap-shot and low-blow into two separate categories.

I think of cheap shot as something like, "Hey! What the heck is that?" *points over opponent's shoulder*.

As a standard attack action, usable as part of a full-attack action, make a bluff check to leave them flat-footed. A cheap shot isn't about doing lots of damage, it's about catching someone off-guard.

As a full-attack action, the player makes a normal attack roll, with perhaps a -2 to strike.

If it hits, have the victim make a reflex save vs. the attack roll to prevent the attack entirely (caught the foot). If the reflex save fails, roll damage, with an extra d6 of OW damage.

If the victim takes damage, have them then make a fortitude save vs. the damage dealt, or be stunned for 1d4 rounds, and dropped to prone. Here's the appropriate modifiers from SRD.

Prone

The character is on the ground. An attacker who is prone has a -4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A defender who is prone gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.

Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

Stunned

A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

At the victim's initiative, on each turn (including the one where he gets nailed), have him make a will save (or concentration check, if the character has the skill) vs the damage dealt. (for fun, I'd allow characters to add their monk levels to this save.) This will allow the character to break out of the effects, and act normally from that round on.

With either of these actions, the player should be very careful to not get caught by the authorities/referee, or risk disqualification... and I don't think priests of Kord would take to kindly to cheating in a competition.
Wolfvyn
09-03-07, 10:26 PM dividing it into two options is a good idea. However feinting is allowed, which is basically what your version of cheap shot is. Personally I see cheap shot more like an elbow or a head butt. It is a boxing match after all so they are supposed to use their fists only. Perhaps I'll have cheap shot do an extra d6 of damage and catch the opponent flat footed or have it deal normal+ additional d6 of lethal damage instead of subdual.

Basically the contests in the boxing match will have their hands wrapped in specially treated and enchanted leather so that they will be considered proficent with thier fists, won't provoke AoO from opponents who have Improved unarmed strike and make everyone deal at least 1d6 subdual damage. Monks will deal their normal amount of damage. I did it this way again to help even the field a bit without giving anyone to much of an edge and to make it go a little more quickly.

As for low blow; it seems good overall, but still needs some tweeking. I'll have to check it out in a little trial so see how it works. It might be a little to much, especially for someone with a high diplomacy or bluff check to convince the ref that it was an accident. However after a certain number of accidents the player would still be disqualified, but the players will be competing against each other and NPC's so I don't want to give anyone to big of an edge and right now low blow seems like the ultimate way to get rid of a tough opponent. There won't be rounds like there are in a modern boxing match. The contestants will fight until one of them drops and the one standing will move on.
BigJohn42
09-05-07, 04:54 PM feinting is allowed, which is basically what your version of cheap shot is. Personally I see cheap shot more like an elbow or a head butt.

See, I was thinking of a cheap-shot as more of a sucker-punch than an illegal kick/elbow/headbutt. I guess that would fall under feinting. Perhaps allow a slight-of-hand instead of bluff for the cheap-shot roll, with the same effect as a feint? That would show the difference in why someone is flat-footed.

Basically the contests in the boxing match will have their hands wrapped in specially treated and enchanted leather so that they will be considered proficent with thier fists, won't provoke AoO from opponents who have Improved unarmed strike and make everyone deal at least 1d6 subdual damage.

Wouldn't this unnecessarily nerf the monk? Let people threaten all the way around, but give the AoO from Improved Unarmed. These guys are supposed to be hand-to-hand masters... let it show.

As for low blow; it seems good overall, but still needs some tweeking. I'll have to check it out in a little trial so see how it works. It might be a little to much, especially for someone with a high diplomacy or bluff check to convince the ref that it was an accident.

I'm sure it needs tweaking/testing... that was all off the top of my head. As far as the diplomacy/bluff checks, I was actually thinking of that when I came up with the rules. I like the idea of a bard sweet-talking the referee while mule-kicking their opponant. It'll give the charisma-based characters more of a chance in single combat against the tanks.

Either way, let me know what you decide on, and how it works!
Wolfvyn
09-05-07, 05:13 PM No it wouldn't nerf the monk. The monk still has the wis mod to ac, the monk bonus to ac and the same unarmed attack progression. They aren't wearing armor when boxing, wrestling or in the pit-fight. So the monk has a definate advantage. His ac is going to be much higher than everyone elses, which will basically end up being effectively their touch ac. I'm considering allowing stunning fist and flurry of blows too so the monk is still the master and it will show. It's just going to not be an instant win for the monk is all.
BigJohn42
09-05-07, 05:58 PM No it wouldn't nerf the monk. The monk still has the wis mod to ac, the monk bonus to ac and the same unarmed attack progression. They aren't wearing armor when boxing, wrestling or in the pit-fight. So the monk has a definate advantage. His ac is going to be much higher than everyone elses, which will basically end up being effectively their touch ac. I'm considering allowing stunning fist and flurry of blows too so the monk is still the master and it will show. It's just going to not be an instant win for the monk is all.

Okay... fair enough. But how many people play monks?
Wolfvyn
09-05-07, 07:54 PM And the number of people who play monks is an issue because? Now if you are asking if the players will face a monk in th competition the answer is yes, there will be two competing, but again what does that have to do with anything?
BigJohn42
09-07-07, 10:59 PM Don't get me wrong... I've changed my mind on it... For some reason, I was thinking that you were going to strip away things like flurry-of-blows.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wolfvyn 09-03-07, 04:28 PM	Alright in my campaign the party is about to head off on a long and hopefully frustrating adventure into the underdark. So as a little gift and because I thought it would be fun I decided to offer them the chance to take part in an athletics competition being held by their neighborhood temple of Kord. There is going to be a high jump, long jump, shot put, javelin, tug of war, a rugby like game, an obstacle course, boxing, wrestling and a free style pit fight. Now what I need a little help with are the boxing, wrestling and the rugby like game. one of the rules for the competition is that no magic, magic items or special, meaning spell-like or supernatural, can be used. I haven't quite decided on if I would allow extraordinary abilities to be used or not. Right now I'm leaning towards allowing all but a few specific ones. Anyway the party is level 11 so to make the boxing match a a little more fun and not take all day to resolve I added a rock, paper and scissor style of extra options they could take. Here they are: Counter: First you prepare an action to counter and when the opponent makes his attack you roll a sense motive check. You can use your BaB or you sense motive skill, which ever is higher, to make the check. If you beat the sense motive check by 5 or more and then make a reflex save DC 13 you successfully dodge his attack and deliver a counter punch that does double damage and catches the opponent flat footed. The DC of the save goes up by 2 very time you accumulate 20% of you max hp as damage. Meaning everytim your hp drops by 20% of it's max and for every 20% of subdual damage you rack up. If you interrupt an opponents full attack with a counter the opponent much make a concentration check equal to 10+damage dealt or lose the rest of his attacks. Every unarmed fighting feat that you have grants a cumulative +1 bonus to your sense motive check to counter. yes you can add sneak attack damage to a counter punch, but I haven't decided if I will allow for full sneak attack to be added of if I'll knock it down to half extra dice damage, rounded up. Meaning if you have +3d6 sneak attack you'd deal +2d6. Haymaker: As a full round action you can put all you weight into a singl devastating punch. You take a -5 penalty on your attack roll and you deal double damage. In addition you and your target make opposed strength checks. If you get a higher result than your opponent he must make a concentration check equal to 10+damage dealt or be stunned for one round. If you beat the target by five or more he falls prone and must make a dc 13 fort save to get back up, if he fails he looses. The DC increases by 2 for each fall and for every 20% of max hp damage accumulated. Again meaning every time your hp drops by 20% or for every 20% of subdual damage you rack up. Guard: as an immediate action you can guard. Guarding raises your ac by five, reduces damage by half and gives a +4 bonus on opposed strength checks from a Haymaker. However guarding costs you a turn. Basically if you guard you lose your next turn. Cheap shot/low blow: I have no idea for this one. A couple of my players said they would be interested in this type of option, but I have no idea what to make it. A sleight of hand check to catch an opponent off guard? AS of right now I have no plans of including an option like this, but if any of you come up with a good suggestion I'll take it into consideration. Wrestling: Obviously this will be handled by grappling. But to make it go a little quick I thought I would add a new option and a couple different ways to win. you can win by either moving your opponent out of the ring, by pinning him for three consecutive rounds, when your opponent surrenders or fails unconscious. Now for the surrendering part I was thinking of adding a submission option. While you have your opponent pinned and when ever you beat him with an opposed grapple check by 5 or more you can then attempt to put him into a submission hold. You and your opponent roll opposed strength checks and if you beat him then you put him into a submission hold. every unarmed fighting feat you have gives you a +1 bonus. He then must make a fort save equal to 5 + 1/2 your characters level + either your str or dex mod or tap out. The fort save Dc increases by two for every round you have him in submission. Now comes the tough one, the rugby like game. Basically everything but dealing actual damage would be allowed. So you can trip, bullrush, overrun, grapple, ect. You have to get the ball into the opposing teams endzone. Just getting it here gives you one point. behind the endzone will be a small hoop that you can attempt to through the ball through. If you succeed you get five points, if you miss then you get no points, even if you managed to get into the endzone. the ball will have a range increment of 10 feet. You can pass the ball, which is basically a ranged touch attack to get the ball to the other player and then they have to make a reflex save in order to catch it. Still trying to work this one out so it's less clunky and everyone has a reasonble chance at success with out success being guaranteed for some. At the moment I have no idea how this game will play out. Has anyone ever done anything simular? How did it work out and what rules did you use? Now the free style pit fight is going to be no holds barred, so although magic items will not be allowed I'm thinking of allowing magic and special abilities in this one. Should I allow everyone to use all they have in this particular competition?
BigJohn42 09-03-07, 09:29 PM	Cheap shot/low blow: I have no idea for this one. A couple of my players said they would be interested in this type of option, but I have no idea what to make it. A sleight of hand check to catch an opponent off guard? AS of right now I have no plans of including an option like this, but if any of you come up with a good suggestion I'll take it into consideration. I've gotta say that I LOVE this concept, over-all. Unfortunately, I only have a couple of suggestions. First thing I'd do is divide cheap-shot and low-blow into two separate categories. I think of cheap shot as something like, "Hey! What the heck is that?" points over opponent's shoulder. As a standard attack action, usable as part of a full-attack action, make a bluff check to leave them flat-footed. A cheap shot isn't about doing lots of damage, it's about catching someone off-guard. As a full-attack action, the player makes a normal attack roll, with perhaps a -2 to strike. If it hits, have the victim make a reflex save vs. the attack roll to prevent the attack entirely (caught the foot). If the reflex save fails, roll damage, with an extra d6 of OW damage. If the victim takes damage, have them then make a fortitude save vs. the damage dealt, or be stunned for 1d4 rounds, and dropped to prone. Here's the appropriate modifiers from SRD. Prone The character is on the ground. An attacker who is prone has a -4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A defender who is prone gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks. Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Stunned A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). At the victim's initiative, on each turn (including the one where he gets nailed), have him make a will save (or concentration check, if the character has the skill) vs the damage dealt. (for fun, I'd allow characters to add their monk levels to this save.) This will allow the character to break out of the effects, and act normally from that round on. With either of these actions, the player should be very careful to not get caught by the authorities/referee, or risk disqualification... and I don't think priests of Kord would take to kindly to cheating in a competition.
Wolfvyn 09-03-07, 10:26 PM	dividing it into two options is a good idea. However feinting is allowed, which is basically what your version of cheap shot is. Personally I see cheap shot more like an elbow or a head butt. It is a boxing match after all so they are supposed to use their fists only. Perhaps I'll have cheap shot do an extra d6 of damage and catch the opponent flat footed or have it deal normal+ additional d6 of lethal damage instead of subdual. Basically the contests in the boxing match will have their hands wrapped in specially treated and enchanted leather so that they will be considered proficent with thier fists, won't provoke AoO from opponents who have Improved unarmed strike and make everyone deal at least 1d6 subdual damage. Monks will deal their normal amount of damage. I did it this way again to help even the field a bit without giving anyone to much of an edge and to make it go a little more quickly. As for low blow; it seems good overall, but still needs some tweeking. I'll have to check it out in a little trial so see how it works. It might be a little to much, especially for someone with a high diplomacy or bluff check to convince the ref that it was an accident. However after a certain number of accidents the player would still be disqualified, but the players will be competing against each other and NPC's so I don't want to give anyone to big of an edge and right now low blow seems like the ultimate way to get rid of a tough opponent. There won't be rounds like there are in a modern boxing match. The contestants will fight until one of them drops and the one standing will move on.
BigJohn42 09-05-07, 04:54 PM	feinting is allowed, which is basically what your version of cheap shot is. Personally I see cheap shot more like an elbow or a head butt. See, I was thinking of a cheap-shot as more of a sucker-punch than an illegal kick/elbow/headbutt. I guess that would fall under feinting. Perhaps allow a slight-of-hand instead of bluff for the cheap-shot roll, with the same effect as a feint? That would show the difference in why someone is flat-footed. Basically the contests in the boxing match will have their hands wrapped in specially treated and enchanted leather so that they will be considered proficent with thier fists, won't provoke AoO from opponents who have Improved unarmed strike and make everyone deal at least 1d6 subdual damage. Wouldn't this unnecessarily nerf the monk? Let people threaten all the way around, but give the AoO from Improved Unarmed. These guys are supposed to be hand-to-hand masters... let it show. As for low blow; it seems good overall, but still needs some tweeking. I'll have to check it out in a little trial so see how it works. It might be a little to much, especially for someone with a high diplomacy or bluff check to convince the ref that it was an accident. I'm sure it needs tweaking/testing... that was all off the top of my head. As far as the diplomacy/bluff checks, I was actually thinking of that when I came up with the rules. I like the idea of a bard sweet-talking the referee while mule-kicking their opponant. It'll give the charisma-based characters more of a chance in single combat against the tanks. Either way, let me know what you decide on, and how it works!
Wolfvyn 09-05-07, 05:13 PM	No it wouldn't nerf the monk. The monk still has the wis mod to ac, the monk bonus to ac and the same unarmed attack progression. They aren't wearing armor when boxing, wrestling or in the pit-fight. So the monk has a definate advantage. His ac is going to be much higher than everyone elses, which will basically end up being effectively their touch ac. I'm considering allowing stunning fist and flurry of blows too so the monk is still the master and it will show. It's just going to not be an instant win for the monk is all.
BigJohn42 09-05-07, 05:58 PM	No it wouldn't nerf the monk. The monk still has the wis mod to ac, the monk bonus to ac and the same unarmed attack progression. They aren't wearing armor when boxing, wrestling or in the pit-fight. So the monk has a definate advantage. His ac is going to be much higher than everyone elses, which will basically end up being effectively their touch ac. I'm considering allowing stunning fist and flurry of blows too so the monk is still the master and it will show. It's just going to not be an instant win for the monk is all. Okay... fair enough. But how many people play monks?
Wolfvyn 09-05-07, 07:54 PM	And the number of people who play monks is an issue because? Now if you are asking if the players will face a monk in th competition the answer is yes, there will be two competing, but again what does that have to do with anything?
BigJohn42 09-07-07, 10:59 PM	Don't get me wrong... I've changed my mind on it... For some reason, I was thinking that you were going to strip away things like flurry-of-blows.