Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cuindless 03-20-08, 02:26 AM	If a character wearing full plate and carrying a full backpack is hit with a maximized, empowered ray of enfeeblement and is reduced to a strength score of 1, what happens? Is his pinned under the weight of his own armor? Can he move his arms (with the bracers and gauntlets) to remove his own armor? Is he helpless? Sources would be appreciated.
Slimgauge 03-20-08, 10:21 AM	If a character wearing full plate and carrying a full backpack is hit with a maximized, empowered ray of enfeeblement and is reduced to a strength score of 1, what happens? . He has a strength of 1, and takes a -5 penalty to attacks, damage, and str related skills (and potentially an ACP as well) Is his pinned under the weight of his own armor? From the SRD Armor table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm), full plate weighs 50 lbs. From the SRD Adventuring Gear table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm), a backpack weights 2 lbs, but its capacity is not mentioned. From the SRD Carrying Capacity table (p://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm#encumbrancebyArmor) , with a strength 1, a heavy load is 7-10 lbs. So our now theoretical enfeebled fellow is carrying 52+ lbs when his maximum load is 10 lbs What happens when overloaded ? Under SRD Carrying Capacity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm) section "Lifting and Dragging" A character can lift as much as double his or her maximum load off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it. While overloaded in this way, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC and can move only 5 feet per round (as a full-round action). So he could stagger around with 20 lbs, but he's still well over that. Further under "Lifting and Dragging" A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his or her maximum load. Favorable conditions can double these numbers, and bad circumstances can reduce them to one-half or less. Now we're getting close. 5 x 10 lbs = 50 lbs (under normal conditions) and 2x for favorable conditions would be 100 lbs. So under favorable conditions, this fellow could drag himself along the ground. I'd suggest applying all of 5ft/round as a full round action, loss of any dex bonus to AC and the penalties for being prone. Under unfavorable conditions he could not even do this. Can he move his arms (with the bracers and gauntlets) to remove his own armor?. Regular Gauntlets weigh 1 lb, locked gauntlets weigh an additional 5 lbs (and won't let this poor fellow drop his weapon). Bracers weigh 1 lb. So he can probably move his arms, perhaps like a turtle on its back can flail its legs. If he can reach the straps of the backpack, he can probably unbuckle it. How LONG it takes is up to the DM. Can he get out of his armor ? Not anytime soon. From the SRD Table "Donning Armor" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#tableDonningArmor) It normally takes 1d4+1 minutes to remove platemail, but there are no modifiers listed for strength. Unlike a suit of chainmail that is mostly one piece, platemail has to be taken to pieces to be removed anyway, so no single piece is likely to weigh more than 20 lbs (double this poor fellow's maximum load, the most he can lift off the ground). I'd let him take it off, but I'd have it take double the listed time (unless he has help). Is he helpless? From the SRD condition summary http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. If this fellow was a spellcaster, he could still cast a spell that had no somantic components. If he was a Psion, he could still manifest powers that had no somantic components. If he has a command word activated magic item, he could activate it. Doesn't sound completely helpless to me. But he does have all the penaties for being prone, has lost his dex bonus to AC, and can only crawl five feet per round as a full round action (if conditions are favorable).
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-20-08, 10:42 AM	A strong argument for including steroids in any first aid kit.
weasel0 03-20-08, 10:59 PM	So under favorable conditions, this fellow could drag himself along the ground. I'd suggest applying all of 5ft/round as a full round action, loss of any dex bonus to AC and the penalties for being prone. Under unfavorable conditions he could not even do this. Crawling (http://dndsrd.net/actionsInCombat.html#crawling) Crawling: You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl.Given the guys bad case, a full round action bump is not out of the question.
Kuros81 03-21-08, 12:20 AM	He has a strength of 1, and takes a -5 penalty to attacks, damage, and str related skills (and potentially an ACP as well) From the SRD Armor table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm), full plate weighs 50 lbs. From the SRD Adventuring Gear table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm), a backpack weights 2 lbs, but its capacity is not mentioned. From the SRD Carrying Capacity table (p://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm#encumbrancebyArmor) , with a strength 1, a heavy load is 7-10 lbs. So our now theoretical enfeebled fellow is carrying 52+ lbs when his maximum load is 10 lbs What happens when overloaded ? Under SRD Carrying Capacity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm) section "Lifting and Dragging" So he could stagger around with 20 lbs, but he's still well over that. Further under "Lifting and Dragging" Now we're getting close. 5 x 10 lbs = 50 lbs (under normal conditions) and 2x for favorable conditions would be 100 lbs. So under favorable conditions, this fellow could drag himself along the ground. I'd suggest applying all of 5ft/round as a full round action, loss of any dex bonus to AC and the penalties for being prone. Under unfavorable conditions he could not even do this. Regular Gauntlets weigh 1 lb, locked gauntlets weigh an additional 5 lbs (and won't let this poor fellow drop his weapon). Bracers weigh 1 lb. So he can probably move his arms, perhaps like a turtle on its back can flail its legs. If he can reach the straps of the backpack, he can probably unbuckle it. How LONG it takes is up to the DM. Can he get out of his armor ? Not anytime soon. From the SRD Table "Donning Armor" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#tableDonningArmor) It normally takes 1d4+1 minutes to remove platemail, but there are no modifiers listed for strength. Unlike a suit of chainmail that is mostly one piece, platemail has to be taken to pieces to be removed anyway, so no single piece is likely to weigh more than 20 lbs (double this poor fellow's maximum load, the most he can lift off the ground). I'd let him take it off, but I'd have it take double the listed time (unless he has help). From the SRD condition summary http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm If this fellow was a spellcaster, he could still cast a spell that had no somantic components. If he was a Psion, he could still manifest powers that had no somantic components. If he has a command word activated magic item, he could activate it. Doesn't sound completely helpless to me. But he does have all the penaties for being prone, has lost his dex bonus to AC, and can only crawl five feet per round as a full round action (if conditions are favorable). I give this post a 10 out of 10.
McPoyo 03-25-08, 09:51 AM	I give this post a 10 out of 10. Psionics have no somatic components, only concentration requirements for having it disrupted. Everything else was dead on though.
Half_Dragon_Infernal 03-28-08, 10:21 PM	MCPOYO, FACE THE WRATH OF SPELLWARPED KITTENS FOR BEATING ME TO THAT ANSWER! In other words, the post was a 9.5 out of 10.
BobSutan 03-28-08, 10:40 PM	I was just thinking about this earlier when I was looking over the Ray Spells thread I made earlier when someone mentioned Ray of Enfeeblement. I'd rule it like DDO does where if you are reduced to 1 or less Strength and you're overburdened you fall prone and are helpless. Can anyone say "coup de grace"? No movement, no crawling, nada, zip, zilch. You are pinned under the weight of your own gear and cannot move. Also, I'd even add in the character's own bodyweight against someone with a 1 or 0 Strength.
Slimgauge 03-31-08, 01:16 PM	Also, I'd even add in the character's own bodyweight against someone with a 1 or 0 Strength. A character with strength 0 is helpless. A character with Strength 0 falls to the ground and is helpless. However, a character with strength 1 has a non-zero carrying capacity over and above his own body weight as listed by the the SRD Carrying Capacity table and is not helpless.
BobSutan 03-31-08, 04:21 PM	However, a character with strength 1 has a non-zero carrying capacity over and above his own body weight as listed by the the SRD Carrying Capacity table and is not helpless. He effectively is if that full plate he's wearing exceeds his carrying capacity. "Help! I've fallen and I can't get up." Imagine strapping your grandpa or great grandpa into a suit of full plate armor, but suspended by a harness from the ceiling. Then you disconnect the harness really quick and he collapses under the weight pinned, possibly crushed. That's how I imagine it.
weasel0 04-01-08, 12:31 AM	Still eventually be able to remove enough armor pieces to get oneself free.... may take several hours.... but still doable.