Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cobra1117 08-02-07, 01:10 PM	In my last game, one of the wizards in the party wanted to target his opponent's armor with disintegrate. However, the rules seem rather unclear as to how to find the AC for armor (or weapons). I found the "10 + size modifier + wielder's Dex" rule, but does armor count it's own AC? Is the size modifier equal to the size modifier for the wearer? (Since the armor should have almost full body coverage) Also, is there any good place to find sizes for weapons, or is it just a best-guess situation? Thanks!
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-02-07, 01:46 PM	Armor cannot be targetted by weapons (and by extension, weapon-like spells) while equipped. source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#sunder)
weasel0 08-02-07, 03:05 PM	I found the "10 + size modifier + wielder's Dex" rule And if you keep reading, you'll find the bit in the last sentance that Shaggy_Shaggs is referring too. This is what happens when aimed at a character. Note my emphisized area. A thin, green ray springs from your pointing finger. You must make a successful ranged touch attack to hit. Any creature struck by the ray takes 2d6 points of damage per caster level (to a maximum of 40d6). Any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by this spell is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. A disintegrated creature’s equipment is unaffected.
Marcus Majarra 08-02-07, 06:43 PM	Gentlemen, you are both incorrect. A disintegrate spell is not an attempt to sunder an item; it's a spell targetted on an object (and, indeed, the spell affects objects). As such, it doesn't follow sunder rules. Furthermore, when you target an item a creature is wearing, you're not targetting the creature itself, so the clause regarding a disintegrated creature's equipment doesn't apply. This being said, targetting the armor would require an attack roll against an AC of 10 + the wearer's Dex modifier + the armor's size modifier. Although it's debatable, I would have the armor's size modifier to AC be the same as its wearer. Furthermore, since this is an item held or worn by a creature, it saves against the spell using its own saving throw modifier or its wearer's, whichever is higher.
crashlogic 08-02-07, 07:13 PM	Which makes sense-isn't disintigrate a touch attack spell? It would use the targets touch AC.
Cobra1117 08-03-07, 10:08 AM	Gentlemen, you are both incorrect. A disintegrate spell is not an attempt to sunder an item; it's a spell targetted on an object (and, indeed, the spell affects objects). As such, it doesn't follow sunder rules. Furthermore, when you target an item a creature is wearing, you're not targetting the creature itself, so the clause regarding a disintegrated creature's equipment doesn't apply. This being said, targetting the armor would require an attack roll against an AC of 10 + the wearer's Dex modifier + the armor's size modifier. Although it's debatable, I would have the armor's size modifier to AC be the same as its wearer. Furthermore, since this is an item held or worn by a creature, it saves against the spell using its own saving throw modifier or its wearer's, whichever is higher. Excellent. This makes sense. Thanks!
Phrennzy 08-03-07, 12:27 PM	Speaking for the villain who's armor is being targetted by the Disentegrate, let me just say, "Thank you for shooting my armor instead of me. I have no problem fighting naked. I do have a problem fighting as a small pile of dust."
Salla 08-03-07, 12:39 PM	Speaking for the villain who's armor is being targetted by the Disentegrate, let me just say, "Thank you for shooting my armor instead of me. I have no problem fighting naked. I do have a problem fighting as a small pile of dust." Well, we were just trying to determine if it was possible ... whether or not it's tactically sound is another issue entirely. :)
Cobra1117 08-03-07, 01:36 PM	Well, we were just trying to determine if it was possible ... whether or not it's tactically sound is another issue entirely. :) Yeah... it was actually a rather innovative approach by the player--the armor was a powerful suit of evil full plate that was controlling the character inside of it. So the player's creative approach was to try to remove the armor itself, rather than the brute-force approach of kill/heal or resurrect (which is what I was expecting). Bonus XP for creativity was awarded. :-)
Phrennzy 08-03-07, 03:33 PM	Yeah... it was actually a rather innovative approach by the player--the armor was a powerful suit of evil full plate that was controlling the character inside of it. So the player's creative approach was to try to remove the armor itself, rather than the brute-force approach of kill/heal or resurrect (which is what I was expecting). Bonus XP for creativity was awarded. :-) That is a very smart way around that problem. And good on the DM for awarding extra XP for it!
Salla 08-03-07, 07:03 PM	That is a very smart way around that problem. And good on the DM for awarding extra XP for it! I concur. :)