The Lich’s Phylactery [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Lich’s Phylactery [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
someonelse812
09-11-07, 12:07 PM The literature seems very vague on Lich's phylacteries. Where can I find more information. Specifically what I want to know is, if the PCs destroy the Lich’s phylactery can he make a new one? Or does a Lich have only one? What happens if the PCs destroy the phylactery and then attack, is the lich likely to fight back full force? Or would he pull back and fight defensively, hoping to escape until he can make a new phylactery?
Kamin_Majere
09-11-07, 01:03 PM I believe there is an Epic spell that allows you to break your Phylactery into up to 204 pieces. (cant remember what its called)

But i would say most "normal" lich's wouldnt be able to create another one. its pretty much their prized poscession. And most go through RETARD amounts of trouble to keep them safe.

If i were a lich and a party destroyed my phylactery then i would retreat instantly. Theres no way i would risk my eternal unlife fighting creatures that would be dead in just a few decades/centuries
Infernostrider
09-11-07, 01:06 PM aren't liches tied to their phylactery? if it's destroyed they are destroyed? and they come back to unlife if you fail to destroy it?
someonelse812
09-11-07, 01:25 PM my understanding is that the phylactery holds their soul, if they die they respawn with their phylactery. if the phylactery is destroyed they will not respawn, but they will continue to be immortally undead until they are destroyed.

am I wrong? if so can you please cite a source.
Kamin_Majere
09-11-07, 01:26 PM aren't liches tied to their phylactery? if it's destroyed they are destroyed? and they come back to unlife if you fail to destroy it?

Kind of. In order to truely destroy a lich you have to destroy its body and then destroy its phylactery before it comes back to "un-life"

If you simply destroy the Phyactery than the lich is still perfectly fine, it simply no longer has its safety net in which to continue "un-living" if it were killed by sociopathic adventurers.

Thats why they guard it so well. No matter what happens, as long as they have their phylactery they will be back to continue doing what they want to. But the moment the phylactery is destroyed then they are effectively just a really high level adjustment zombie.
Mock26
09-11-07, 01:43 PM But the moment the phylactery is destroyed then they are effectively just a really high level adjustment zombie. Until they make another one.
someonelse812
09-11-07, 01:49 PM Until they make another one.

thats what I want to know, can they make another one after the first one is destroyed? I have not yet found anything where it says one way or another. please cite your source.
Kamin_Majere
09-11-07, 01:49 PM Until they make another one.

Can they make another one? As far as i can tell they still only have one soul to give up in the ritual and bound into the Phylactery.

Why would there be an epic spell to make more phylacterys if any lich could just make 5 or 6 hundred of them to begin with.
Merestil Haye
09-11-07, 04:43 PM According to a very recent online Sage Advice, no they cannot make another phylactery.
Gloomweave
09-11-07, 04:52 PM is there a limit to the range the phylactery must be for it to work? or can it be a hundred miles away?
Sildatorak
09-11-07, 04:58 PM The phylactery has no range limit. IIRC it will even work across planar boundaries. As far as making another one, I believe that Libris Mortis definitively says it cannot be done.
Loren Pechtel
09-12-07, 11:51 PM You certainly can't have two except for some special cases.

I don't see that you can't replace a destroyed one. It's just very expensive (XP as well as GP) and you don't respawn if you don't have one.
someonelse812
09-13-07, 12:10 AM I don't know why i didn't think to look here before. Libris Mortis on page 151 clearly states that they get only one. if its destroyed they are fukt. it also gives a break DC, which I couldnt find anywhere else. that annoys me because I just assumed in game that it would be simple to smash so I didn't have the PCs make a break check (I figured there would be one, but I didnt have time in game to look it up). I just allowed them to break it. if I had known about this break DC at the time they never would have been able to break it. but the F***ING monster manual says nothing about it, nor does the F***ING adventure module say anything. (Im running the RHoD, the PCs broke the Ghostlord's phylactery right before his eyes before attacking)

I'm very annoyed by this. I can't very well take it back and say "well I didnt know the break DC at the time so you didn't actually break it". I mean, I could, but I'm not a rat bastard DM.

what can I do now? this Lich is going to go down a lot easier than he should.
Sixam
09-13-07, 12:31 AM So what's stopping a Lich from putting his phylactery in a Bag of Holding, then puncturing the bag so it's sent into nilspace and 'lost forever'?
Marcus Majarra
09-13-07, 02:19 AM Isn't the Sage answering these questions this week?
someonelse812
09-13-07, 02:21 AM So what's stopping a Lich from putting his phylactery in a Bag of Holding, then puncturing the bag so it's sent into nilspace and 'lost forever'?

that would be pointless. the whole purpose of the phylactery is to resurrect the lich when he is destroyed. if the phylactery were in 'nilspace' then so whould the Lich when he respawned.
Thegans
09-13-07, 02:29 AM I don't know why i didn't think to look here before. Libris Mortis on page 151 clearly states that they get only one. if its destroyed they are fukt. it also gives a break DC, which I couldnt find anywhere else. that annoys me because I just assumed in game that it would be simple to smash so I didn't have the PCs make a break check (I figured there would be one, but I didnt have time in game to look it up). I just allowed them to break it. if I had known about this break DC at the time they never would have been able to break it. but the F***ING monster manual says nothing about it, nor does the F***ING adventure module say anything. (Im running the RHoD, the PCs broke the Ghostlord's phylactery right before his eyes before attacking)

I'm very annoyed by this. I can't very well take it back and say "well I didnt know the break DC at the time so you didn't actually break it". I mean, I could, but I'm not a rat bastard DM.

what can I do now? this Lich is going to go down a lot easier than he should.

It could have been a fake.
Sildatorak
09-13-07, 01:02 PM what can I do now? this Lich is going to go down a lot easier than he should.
Have him fight very briefly and then flee. I am not familiar with RHoD, so I don't know if this is feasible or not for that part of the adventure, but if I were an undead lord and my phylactery just got wrecked I would probably be ticked enough to disintegrate someone and then teleport out before I risked utter destruction.
stanleyx2002
09-13-07, 01:21 PM Here's my question, since a Lich's soul is contained in its phylactery, couldn't I theoretically stop/manipulate/etc. a Lich by possessing its soul through a Trap the Soul spell, stealing its phylactery, or any similar acts?

Also, i know they are immune to necromancy effects, but do you think it should be possible to cast Bestow Curse on a lich, if the effect doesn't do any actual damage or harm to the lich?
For example, a curse where he can't leave a certain area, he just is compelled not to?
Sildatorak
09-13-07, 06:48 PM Also, i know they are immune to necromancy effects, but do you think it should be possible to cast Bestow Curse on a lich, if the effect doesn't do any actual damage or harm to the lich?
I don't see where a lich is immune to necromancy effects. Their lack of a constitution score makes them immune to effects that require a fortitude save (unless the spell can also affect objects), but other than that, these are their only immunities:
Immunities (Ex): Liches have immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph (though they can use polymorph effects on themselves), and mind-affecting attacks.
stanleyx2002
09-14-07, 12:30 PM oops, nevermind then. I'm thinking of this without the MM so I have to go off the top of my head with this. Thanks though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
someonelse812 09-11-07, 12:07 PM	The literature seems very vague on Lich's phylacteries. Where can I find more information. Specifically what I want to know is, if the PCs destroy the Lich’s phylactery can he make a new one? Or does a Lich have only one? What happens if the PCs destroy the phylactery and then attack, is the lich likely to fight back full force? Or would he pull back and fight defensively, hoping to escape until he can make a new phylactery?
Kamin_Majere 09-11-07, 01:03 PM	I believe there is an Epic spell that allows you to break your Phylactery into up to 204 pieces. (cant remember what its called) But i would say most "normal" lich's wouldnt be able to create another one. its pretty much their prized poscession. And most go through RETARD amounts of trouble to keep them safe. If i were a lich and a party destroyed my phylactery then i would retreat instantly. Theres no way i would risk my eternal unlife fighting creatures that would be dead in just a few decades/centuries
Infernostrider 09-11-07, 01:06 PM	aren't liches tied to their phylactery? if it's destroyed they are destroyed? and they come back to unlife if you fail to destroy it?
someonelse812 09-11-07, 01:25 PM	my understanding is that the phylactery holds their soul, if they die they respawn with their phylactery. if the phylactery is destroyed they will not respawn, but they will continue to be immortally undead until they are destroyed. am I wrong? if so can you please cite a source.
Kamin_Majere 09-11-07, 01:26 PM	aren't liches tied to their phylactery? if it's destroyed they are destroyed? and they come back to unlife if you fail to destroy it? Kind of. In order to truely destroy a lich you have to destroy its body and then destroy its phylactery before it comes back to "un-life" If you simply destroy the Phyactery than the lich is still perfectly fine, it simply no longer has its safety net in which to continue "un-living" if it were killed by sociopathic adventurers. Thats why they guard it so well. No matter what happens, as long as they have their phylactery they will be back to continue doing what they want to. But the moment the phylactery is destroyed then they are effectively just a really high level adjustment zombie.
Mock26 09-11-07, 01:43 PM	But the moment the phylactery is destroyed then they are effectively just a really high level adjustment zombie. Until they make another one.
someonelse812 09-11-07, 01:49 PM	Until they make another one. thats what I want to know, can they make another one after the first one is destroyed? I have not yet found anything where it says one way or another. please cite your source.
Kamin_Majere 09-11-07, 01:49 PM	Until they make another one. Can they make another one? As far as i can tell they still only have one soul to give up in the ritual and bound into the Phylactery. Why would there be an epic spell to make more phylacterys if any lich could just make 5 or 6 hundred of them to begin with.
Merestil Haye 09-11-07, 04:43 PM	According to a very recent online Sage Advice, no they cannot make another phylactery.
Gloomweave 09-11-07, 04:52 PM	is there a limit to the range the phylactery must be for it to work? or can it be a hundred miles away?
Sildatorak 09-11-07, 04:58 PM	The phylactery has no range limit. IIRC it will even work across planar boundaries. As far as making another one, I believe that Libris Mortis definitively says it cannot be done.
Loren Pechtel 09-12-07, 11:51 PM	You certainly can't have two except for some special cases. I don't see that you can't replace a destroyed one. It's just very expensive (XP as well as GP) and you don't respawn if you don't have one.
someonelse812 09-13-07, 12:10 AM	I don't know why i didn't think to look here before. Libris Mortis on page 151 clearly states that they get only one. if its destroyed they are fukt. it also gives a break DC, which I couldnt find anywhere else. that annoys me because I just assumed in game that it would be simple to smash so I didn't have the PCs make a break check (I figured there would be one, but I didnt have time in game to look it up). I just allowed them to break it. if I had known about this break DC at the time they never would have been able to break it. but the F*ING monster manual says nothing about it, nor does the F*ING adventure module say anything. (Im running the RHoD, the PCs broke the Ghostlord's phylactery right before his eyes before attacking) I'm very annoyed by this. I can't very well take it back and say "well I didnt know the break DC at the time so you didn't actually break it". I mean, I could, but I'm not a rat bastard DM. what can I do now? this Lich is going to go down a lot easier than he should.
Sixam 09-13-07, 12:31 AM	So what's stopping a Lich from putting his phylactery in a Bag of Holding, then puncturing the bag so it's sent into nilspace and 'lost forever'?
Marcus Majarra 09-13-07, 02:19 AM	Isn't the Sage answering these questions this week?
someonelse812 09-13-07, 02:21 AM	So what's stopping a Lich from putting his phylactery in a Bag of Holding, then puncturing the bag so it's sent into nilspace and 'lost forever'? that would be pointless. the whole purpose of the phylactery is to resurrect the lich when he is destroyed. if the phylactery were in 'nilspace' then so whould the Lich when he respawned.
Thegans 09-13-07, 02:29 AM	I don't know why i didn't think to look here before. Libris Mortis on page 151 clearly states that they get only one. if its destroyed they are fukt. it also gives a break DC, which I couldnt find anywhere else. that annoys me because I just assumed in game that it would be simple to smash so I didn't have the PCs make a break check (I figured there would be one, but I didnt have time in game to look it up). I just allowed them to break it. if I had known about this break DC at the time they never would have been able to break it. but the F*ING monster manual says nothing about it, nor does the F*ING adventure module say anything. (Im running the RHoD, the PCs broke the Ghostlord's phylactery right before his eyes before attacking) I'm very annoyed by this. I can't very well take it back and say "well I didnt know the break DC at the time so you didn't actually break it". I mean, I could, but I'm not a rat bastard DM. what can I do now? this Lich is going to go down a lot easier than he should. It could have been a fake.
Sildatorak 09-13-07, 01:02 PM	what can I do now? this Lich is going to go down a lot easier than he should. Have him fight very briefly and then flee. I am not familiar with RHoD, so I don't know if this is feasible or not for that part of the adventure, but if I were an undead lord and my phylactery just got wrecked I would probably be ticked enough to disintegrate someone and then teleport out before I risked utter destruction.
stanleyx2002 09-13-07, 01:21 PM	Here's my question, since a Lich's soul is contained in its phylactery, couldn't I theoretically stop/manipulate/etc. a Lich by possessing its soul through a Trap the Soul spell, stealing its phylactery, or any similar acts? Also, i know they are immune to necromancy effects, but do you think it should be possible to cast Bestow Curse on a lich, if the effect doesn't do any actual damage or harm to the lich? For example, a curse where he can't leave a certain area, he just is compelled not to?
Sildatorak 09-13-07, 06:48 PM	Also, i know they are immune to necromancy effects, but do you think it should be possible to cast Bestow Curse on a lich, if the effect doesn't do any actual damage or harm to the lich? I don't see where a lich is immune to necromancy effects. Their lack of a constitution score makes them immune to effects that require a fortitude save (unless the spell can also affect objects), but other than that, these are their only immunities: Immunities (Ex): Liches have immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph (though they can use polymorph effects on themselves), and mind-affecting attacks.
stanleyx2002 09-14-07, 12:30 PM	oops, nevermind then. I'm thinking of this without the MM so I have to go off the top of my head with this. Thanks though.