The MP variant and feats that increase casterlevel. [Archive] - Wizards Community

The MP variant and feats that increase casterlevel. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ertai Planeswalker
04-30-07, 07:43 PM I have a question about feats that increase casterlevel and using the MP system for spellcasting.

I play a 6th level sorcerer with the Bloodline of Fire, Fiery Burst and Spell Thematics feats, so i cast Fire spells at +4 CL in the normal system. I am considering asking my DM to allow me to use the magic point system because last campaign another friend played a psion and we all liked the system.

Now, if i'm correct, a character is not allowed to spend more magic points on a single spell than his casterlevel right? But would these feats allow me to break caps on that? For example, let's say i am level 9. A fireball spell costs me 5 MP, but i am allowed to spend 9 on a fireball spell. However, since my feats already increase the damage dealt by the fireball to maximum (From 6D6 to 10D6), can i then choose to make it an Empowerd Fireball instead? I mean, i am not spending more then 9 MP on it, so it should be legal. However, an empowered fireball is a 5th level spell, and thus would normally cost at least 11 MP, and as such be uncastable for a 9th level sorcerer.

So are CL increasing feats just a little more powerfull with the MP variant, or would you say that this requires additional ruling?

I asked this question on the UA boards as well, but this gets a little more traffic.
Ertai Planeswalker
05-03-07, 03:40 AM 2 Days, 21 views, and still no answer?
tos_shai_hulud
05-03-07, 07:25 AM I have a question about feats that increase casterlevel and using the MP system for spellcasting.

I play a 6th level sorcerer with the Bloodline of Fire, Fiery Burst and Spell Thematics feats, so i cast Fire spells at +4 CL in the normal system. I am considering asking my DM to allow me to use the magic point system because last campaign another friend played a psion and we all liked the system.

Now, if i'm correct, a character is not allowed to spend more magic points on a single spell than his casterlevel right? But would these feats allow me to break caps on that? For example, let's say i am level 9. A fireball spell costs me 5 MP, but i am allowed to spend 9 on a fireball spell. However, since my feats already increase the damage dealt by the fireball to maximum (From 6D6 to 10D6), can i then choose to make it an Empowerd Fireball instead? I mean, i am not spending more then 9 MP on it, so it should be legal. However, an empowered fireball is a 5th level spell, and thus would normally cost at least 11 MP, and as such be uncastable for a 9th level sorcerer.

So are CL increasing feats just a little more powerfull with the MP variant, or would you say that this requires additional ruling?

I asked this question on the UA boards as well, but this gets a little more traffic.

The advice given for the Spell Point system is that an increase in CL does NOT automatically increase the spell's damage. Instead, it increases the maximum number of Spell Points you can spend on the spell. So, your 6th level wizard can usually spend a maximum of 6 Spell Points on a single fireball, but with those feats, your wizard can spend a maximum of 10 Spell Points on the fireball. Empower increases the spell level by two spell slots, which is a total increase of 4 Spell Points. Your character would need a caster level of 14 to be able to empower a 10d6 fireball.

Now, the Spell Point rules are not clear on this, so it will be up to your DM. Since you are spending Spell Points instead of simply allowing your caster level to increase your spell damage, the DC might increase to resist the fireball. The MP system does not discuss this at all. I would recommend a close comparison of Psionics and attempt to grant similar Augmentation powers to magic. It would be a complete overhaul of the magic system, looking at each spell individually. Honestly, magic was not meant to be cast by the Spell Point system. It may very well be a better system, but it was not designed for it, so attempting to use the spell point system creates some anomolies that will need to be addressed, like DCs of lower level spells cast with more Spell Points.
Steely_Dan
05-03-07, 08:37 AM As a 9th level wizard you cannot spend more than 9 spell points on a spell, but if you had some feat that bumped up your caster level by +4 when casting spells with the fire descriptor, you could spend 13 spell points when casting a spell with the fire descriptor.
sabrewolf
05-05-07, 04:39 AM My take on this would be like Steely_Dan said, to some spells your SP limit would be your adjusted Cl. That means the feats are still usefull, but require you to burn more mana to archieve their effects - it´d only increase your MP-per-spell limit.

Another aproach - more powerfull and more akin to the original power increase of such feats - would be for them to increase the cap like above, AND also "pay for free" part of the casting for increased Cl for a spell, wich translates for an increased minimum damage.

Hope it helps...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ertai Planeswalker 04-30-07, 07:43 PM	I have a question about feats that increase casterlevel and using the MP system for spellcasting. I play a 6th level sorcerer with the Bloodline of Fire, Fiery Burst and Spell Thematics feats, so i cast Fire spells at +4 CL in the normal system. I am considering asking my DM to allow me to use the magic point system because last campaign another friend played a psion and we all liked the system. Now, if i'm correct, a character is not allowed to spend more magic points on a single spell than his casterlevel right? But would these feats allow me to break caps on that? For example, let's say i am level 9. A fireball spell costs me 5 MP, but i am allowed to spend 9 on a fireball spell. However, since my feats already increase the damage dealt by the fireball to maximum (From 6D6 to 10D6), can i then choose to make it an Empowerd Fireball instead? I mean, i am not spending more then 9 MP on it, so it should be legal. However, an empowered fireball is a 5th level spell, and thus would normally cost at least 11 MP, and as such be uncastable for a 9th level sorcerer. So are CL increasing feats just a little more powerfull with the MP variant, or would you say that this requires additional ruling? I asked this question on the UA boards as well, but this gets a little more traffic.
Ertai Planeswalker 05-03-07, 03:40 AM	2 Days, 21 views, and still no answer?
tos_shai_hulud 05-03-07, 07:25 AM	I have a question about feats that increase casterlevel and using the MP system for spellcasting. I play a 6th level sorcerer with the Bloodline of Fire, Fiery Burst and Spell Thematics feats, so i cast Fire spells at +4 CL in the normal system. I am considering asking my DM to allow me to use the magic point system because last campaign another friend played a psion and we all liked the system. Now, if i'm correct, a character is not allowed to spend more magic points on a single spell than his casterlevel right? But would these feats allow me to break caps on that? For example, let's say i am level 9. A fireball spell costs me 5 MP, but i am allowed to spend 9 on a fireball spell. However, since my feats already increase the damage dealt by the fireball to maximum (From 6D6 to 10D6), can i then choose to make it an Empowerd Fireball instead? I mean, i am not spending more then 9 MP on it, so it should be legal. However, an empowered fireball is a 5th level spell, and thus would normally cost at least 11 MP, and as such be uncastable for a 9th level sorcerer. So are CL increasing feats just a little more powerfull with the MP variant, or would you say that this requires additional ruling? I asked this question on the UA boards as well, but this gets a little more traffic. The advice given for the Spell Point system is that an increase in CL does NOT automatically increase the spell's damage. Instead, it increases the maximum number of Spell Points you can spend on the spell. So, your 6th level wizard can usually spend a maximum of 6 Spell Points on a single fireball, but with those feats, your wizard can spend a maximum of 10 Spell Points on the fireball. Empower increases the spell level by two spell slots, which is a total increase of 4 Spell Points. Your character would need a caster level of 14 to be able to empower a 10d6 fireball. Now, the Spell Point rules are not clear on this, so it will be up to your DM. Since you are spending Spell Points instead of simply allowing your caster level to increase your spell damage, the DC might increase to resist the fireball. The MP system does not discuss this at all. I would recommend a close comparison of Psionics and attempt to grant similar Augmentation powers to magic. It would be a complete overhaul of the magic system, looking at each spell individually. Honestly, magic was not meant to be cast by the Spell Point system. It may very well be a better system, but it was not designed for it, so attempting to use the spell point system creates some anomolies that will need to be addressed, like DCs of lower level spells cast with more Spell Points.
Steely_Dan 05-03-07, 08:37 AM	As a 9th level wizard you cannot spend more than 9 spell points on a spell, but if you had some feat that bumped up your caster level by +4 when casting spells with the fire descriptor, you could spend 13 spell points when casting a spell with the fire descriptor.
sabrewolf 05-05-07, 04:39 AM	My take on this would be like Steely_Dan said, to some spells your SP limit would be your adjusted Cl. That means the feats are still usefull, but require you to burn more mana to archieve their effects - it´d only increase your MP-per-spell limit. Another aproach - more powerfull and more akin to the original power increase of such feats - would be for them to increase the cap like above, AND also "pay for free" part of the casting for increased Cl for a spell, wich translates for an increased minimum damage. Hope it helps...