The rules! They are missing! [Archive] - Wizards Community

The rules! They are missing! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dowjin
07-03-07, 02:34 PM I swear I once read that if creature A is in both creature B and C's threatened spaces, and creature A attacks creature B, creature C gets an AoO on Creature A for performing such an action inside of his threatened square. Creature B does not because said creature is on the recieving end of the action, and theoretically, is busy responding to it.

I've been subject to this rule before, and NwN seems to monopolize in the AoO's so I might have gotten it from there too.

However I don't see it in the PHB's AoO chart.

Does anyone have any idea where this came from or if it even is in fact a rule?
Karui_Kage
07-03-07, 02:39 PM It is not a rule. Performing a standard attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from anyone, threat or no threat.

That said, there are always other feats which may change this, along with different modes of attack which do provoke AoOs (attacking someone unarmed, for example, provokes an AoO).
Leilond
07-03-07, 03:18 PM I swear I once read that if creature A is in both creature B and C's threatened spaces, and creature A attacks creature B, creature C gets an AoO on Creature A for performing such an action inside of his threatened square. Creature B does not because said creature is on the recieving end of the action, and theoretically, is busy responding to it.

I've been subject to this rule before, and NwN seems to monopolize in the AoO's so I might have gotten it from there too.

However I don't see it in the PHB's AoO chart.

Does anyone have any idea where this came from or if it even is in fact a rule?
It doesn't exist a such rule
The action that provoke AoO are described in the manual, and the "attack action" explicity report it doesn't provoke, as you can see here
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm
PenderGrass
07-03-07, 03:34 PM Does anyone have any idea where this came from or if it even is in fact a rule?
Performing a spring attack can cause this to happen, in certain circumstances:

When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate.
I am sure other actions can also cause it to happen.

Just a standard attack will not cause an AoO per your example, tho.

More details of the exact scenario you are wondering about might help.

:dragon:
****
foxtail
07-03-07, 03:40 PM Performing a spring attack can cause this to happen, in certain circumstances

Yeah, but that's the movement, not the attack itself. And provoking for moving through a threatened space is nothing new.
PenderGrass
07-03-07, 08:30 PM Yeah, but that's the movement, not the attack itself. And provoking for moving through a threatened space is nothing new.
Specifically, the Spring Attack action (an attack on one target where a non-target gets an AoO on the attacker) can cause the OPs scenario to happen in the right circumstances.

Hence, it is the use of Spring Attack that actually causes the AoO (since, supposedly, without it - it would be impossible to actually move, attack and move again).

Other activities can also cause the OPs scenario to happen as well.

Another would be performing a Coup De Grace.

There are multiple ways that I can see the OPs scenario happening, therefore, the asking of clarification for exact circumstances.

:dragon:
****
Kaurus
07-03-07, 09:09 PM It is not a rule. Performing a standard attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from anyone, threat or no threat.

I completely agree !

That said, there are always other feats which may change this, along with different modes of attack which do provoke AoOs (attacking someone unarmed, for example, provokes an AoO).

Just want to clarify this one: Attacking unarmed (without Improved Unarmed Attack), gives the defender an AoO (if he hasn´t used all his AoO for this round).
Moving out of the area threatend by an enemy (for example after a succesfull grapple attempt) gives them the opportunity for an AoO (first the one who you want to grapple, than if you manage to grapple him, the other enemies get their chance, because you leave a threatend square), but
Attacks of Opportunity (Part Two):Note that moving out of more than one threatened square during a turn counts as only one "opportunity" for the moving creature's foes (see page 138 in the Player's Handbook). If the character in the previous example moved and left three (or more) squares that you threaten and did nothing else that provokes attacks of opportunity from you, you'd get only one attack of opportunity against him.

On nearly everything concerning AoO please read Attacks of Opportunity (Part Two) http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041102a
Kaurus
07-03-07, 09:16 PM Hence, it is the use of Spring Attack that actually causes the AoO (since, supposedly, without it - it would be impossible to actually move, attack and move again).

Other activities can also cause the OPs scenario to happen as well.

Another would be performing a Coup De Grace.

There are multiple ways that I can see the OPs scenario happening, therefore, the asking of clarification for exact circumstances.

Improved Bullrushing for example !
Improved Overrun would not suffice, it only prevents your enemy from avoiding you.
Nom
07-04-07, 08:32 PM I can think of a few situations where B (target) would get an AoO but C would not (eg unarmed attack, Trip, Grapple, Disarm). For C to get an AoO but not B it would have to be something like Improved Bull Rush which negates the AoO from the target. C would still get the AoO when A left his threatened square.
Dowjin
07-07-07, 04:14 AM My question was using a standard attack action, I know all the other stuff that provokes AoOs. Thanks a lot, guess I was mistaken. O.o; Could have sworn I read that somewhere though.
Anathema
07-07-07, 04:18 AM My question was using a standard attack action, I know all the other stuff that provokes AoOs. Thanks a lot, guess I was mistaken. O.o; Could have sworn I read that somewhere though.

Maybe you're thinking of using a ranged weapon? That would provoke.
otakutaylor
07-08-07, 02:05 AM The closest thing I can think of is resolving a bull rush. While you push the target of the bull rush both you and him move, however neither of you provoke AoO from each other (other than the innitial bull rush check if you don't have improved bull rush) however, anyone else either of you move past gets an AoO.
InsanePsychoRabbit
07-08-07, 11:38 AM I swear I once read that if creature A is in both creature B and C's threatened spaces, and creature A attacks creature B, creature C gets an AoO on Creature A for performing such an action inside of his threatened square.

Assuming Creatures B and C are flanking Creature A, this is the exact effect of the Backstab feat. It was printed in Dragon issue 340. Check it out in the Crystal Keep feats index (link in my sig).
buzzsawl
07-08-07, 11:47 AM Robilar's Gambit maybe?

Lets you take an OoA when somebody swings at you.

I think there may be another tactical feat or spell that allows you to treat attacks against an ally as OoAs...can't remember where though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dowjin 07-03-07, 02:34 PM	I swear I once read that if creature A is in both creature B and C's threatened spaces, and creature A attacks creature B, creature C gets an AoO on Creature A for performing such an action inside of his threatened square. Creature B does not because said creature is on the recieving end of the action, and theoretically, is busy responding to it. I've been subject to this rule before, and NwN seems to monopolize in the AoO's so I might have gotten it from there too. However I don't see it in the PHB's AoO chart. Does anyone have any idea where this came from or if it even is in fact a rule?
Karui_Kage 07-03-07, 02:39 PM	It is not a rule. Performing a standard attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from anyone, threat or no threat. That said, there are always other feats which may change this, along with different modes of attack which do provoke AoOs (attacking someone unarmed, for example, provokes an AoO).
Leilond 07-03-07, 03:18 PM	I swear I once read that if creature A is in both creature B and C's threatened spaces, and creature A attacks creature B, creature C gets an AoO on Creature A for performing such an action inside of his threatened square. Creature B does not because said creature is on the recieving end of the action, and theoretically, is busy responding to it. I've been subject to this rule before, and NwN seems to monopolize in the AoO's so I might have gotten it from there too. However I don't see it in the PHB's AoO chart. Does anyone have any idea where this came from or if it even is in fact a rule? It doesn't exist a such rule The action that provoke AoO are described in the manual, and the "attack action" explicity report it doesn't provoke, as you can see here http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm
PenderGrass 07-03-07, 03:34 PM	Does anyone have any idea where this came from or if it even is in fact a rule? Performing a spring attack can cause this to happen, in certain circumstances: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. I am sure other actions can also cause it to happen. Just a standard attack will not cause an AoO per your example, tho. More details of the exact scenario you are wondering about might help. :dragon: ****
foxtail 07-03-07, 03:40 PM	Performing a spring attack can cause this to happen, in certain circumstances Yeah, but that's the movement, not the attack itself. And provoking for moving through a threatened space is nothing new.
PenderGrass 07-03-07, 08:30 PM	Yeah, but that's the movement, not the attack itself. And provoking for moving through a threatened space is nothing new. Specifically, the Spring Attack action (an attack on one target where a non-target gets an AoO on the attacker) can cause the OPs scenario to happen in the right circumstances. Hence, it is the use of Spring Attack that actually causes the AoO (since, supposedly, without it - it would be impossible to actually move, attack and move again). Other activities can also cause the OPs scenario to happen as well. Another would be performing a Coup De Grace. There are multiple ways that I can see the OPs scenario happening, therefore, the asking of clarification for exact circumstances. :dragon: ****
Kaurus 07-03-07, 09:09 PM	It is not a rule. Performing a standard attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from anyone, threat or no threat. I completely agree ! That said, there are always other feats which may change this, along with different modes of attack which do provoke AoOs (attacking someone unarmed, for example, provokes an AoO). Just want to clarify this one: Attacking unarmed (without Improved Unarmed Attack), gives the defender an AoO (if he hasn´t used all his AoO for this round). Moving out of the area threatend by an enemy (for example after a succesfull grapple attempt) gives them the opportunity for an AoO (first the one who you want to grapple, than if you manage to grapple him, the other enemies get their chance, because you leave a threatend square), but Attacks of Opportunity (Part Two):Note that moving out of more than one threatened square during a turn counts as only one "opportunity" for the moving creature's foes (see page 138 in the Player's Handbook). If the character in the previous example moved and left three (or more) squares that you threaten and did nothing else that provokes attacks of opportunity from you, you'd get only one attack of opportunity against him. On nearly everything concerning AoO please read Attacks of Opportunity (Part Two) http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041102a
Kaurus 07-03-07, 09:16 PM	Hence, it is the use of Spring Attack that actually causes the AoO (since, supposedly, without it - it would be impossible to actually move, attack and move again). Other activities can also cause the OPs scenario to happen as well. Another would be performing a Coup De Grace. There are multiple ways that I can see the OPs scenario happening, therefore, the asking of clarification for exact circumstances. Improved Bullrushing for example ! Improved Overrun would not suffice, it only prevents your enemy from avoiding you.
Nom 07-04-07, 08:32 PM	I can think of a few situations where B (target) would get an AoO but C would not (eg unarmed attack, Trip, Grapple, Disarm). For C to get an AoO but not B it would have to be something like Improved Bull Rush which negates the AoO from the target. C would still get the AoO when A left his threatened square.
Dowjin 07-07-07, 04:14 AM	My question was using a standard attack action, I know all the other stuff that provokes AoOs. Thanks a lot, guess I was mistaken. O.o; Could have sworn I read that somewhere though.
Anathema 07-07-07, 04:18 AM	My question was using a standard attack action, I know all the other stuff that provokes AoOs. Thanks a lot, guess I was mistaken. O.o; Could have sworn I read that somewhere though. Maybe you're thinking of using a ranged weapon? That would provoke.
otakutaylor 07-08-07, 02:05 AM	The closest thing I can think of is resolving a bull rush. While you push the target of the bull rush both you and him move, however neither of you provoke AoO from each other (other than the innitial bull rush check if you don't have improved bull rush) however, anyone else either of you move past gets an AoO.
InsanePsychoRabbit 07-08-07, 11:38 AM	I swear I once read that if creature A is in both creature B and C's threatened spaces, and creature A attacks creature B, creature C gets an AoO on Creature A for performing such an action inside of his threatened square. Assuming Creatures B and C are flanking Creature A, this is the exact effect of the Backstab feat. It was printed in Dragon issue 340. Check it out in the Crystal Keep feats index (link in my sig).
buzzsawl 07-08-07, 11:47 AM	Robilar's Gambit maybe? Lets you take an OoA when somebody swings at you. I think there may be another tactical feat or spell that allows you to treat attacks against an ally as OoAs...can't remember where though.