Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Radijs 03-09-07, 03:07 PM	Some time ago I read of a simple trick regarding the various symbols of death, pain etc. being put on shields and then covered up. And when combat was imminent the symbols would be uncovered and pointed at the enemy. In how far is this a legal/viable tactic and how are allies affected by the symbols?
Marcus Majarra 03-09-07, 03:16 PM	The tactic doesn't work on account of one simple factor: Looking at the rune only activates it. Its effects affect all creatures within 60 feet of it, with a combined hp total of no more than 150, starting with the creatures closest to the symbol. This means that whomever is wielding the shield will be the first to be affected (unless his hp are above 150).
Radijs 03-09-07, 04:53 PM	Ah, well the I suppose the tactic works if you use a symbol of spell loss. But just keep your spellcasters at least 60 ft away from it.
Someone 03-10-07, 02:02 AM	Actually, you can. You can "attune" the symbol to not affect specific people (the caster is automatic). Up to 10 (i.e. enough to cover an adventuring party) just makes the symbol take an hour to set up, instead of 10 minutes. Also, death is the only one with an hp limit. A portable symbol of sleep/weakness/stunning is hideously destructive. After it activates, for the next two hours or so, everything that comes within 60 ft. is a will save away from charging sneak attack doom.
Marcus Majarra 03-10-07, 05:03 PM	I stand corrected on some points. While it is very interesting to attune the symbol to your party, using this tactic is going to be expensive either in terms of material components or experience points (if you wish to make the symbol permanent; see the permanency spell). Second, the symbol of fear and symbol of stunning also have a hit point limit (the other ones explicitly state that they do not). I'd see symbol of sleep and weakness as being the most useful ones to a party.
Someone 03-11-07, 03:54 AM	...Second, the symbol of fear and symbol of stunning also have a hit point limit (the other ones explicitly state that they do not).Uh, well, I guess I stand corrected on my correction...
Radijs 03-11-07, 07:20 AM	This suddenly makes the symbols very attractive to paint on sheet-covered shields to trigger when they are brought to bear.
Marcus Majarra 03-11-07, 03:08 PM	If the party can afford 1K+ gp and the caster of permanency can afford to pay up a couple of thousand experience points, the tactic is good... until the symbol is dispelled.
Radijs 03-12-07, 04:41 AM	True, most symbols are very expensive. But the Symbol of Spell Loss has no material components and is very good at debilitating every enemy spellcasters by taking away their highest level spells.
Sylvaroth 03-12-07, 07:38 AM	One word: Symbol Grenades :D
DaMullet 03-12-07, 05:26 PM	If the party can afford 1K+ gp and the caster of permanency can afford to pay up a couple of thousand experience points, the tactic is good... until the symbol is dispelled. Now, you may have a point here, but I've always read This: A symbol of death can be removed by a successful dispel magic targeted solely on the rune. An erase spell has no effect on a symbol of death. Destruction of the surface where a symbol of death is inscribed destroys the symbol but also triggers it. Symbol of death can be made permanent with a permanency spell. A permanent symbol of death that is disabled or that has affected its maximum number of hit points becomes inactive for 10 minutes, then can be triggered again as normal. to mean, Dispel Magic on a Permanent Symbol merely makes it stop working for a bit, like how magic items are nulled in an Antimagic field. It's always possible that I'm reading it wrong, and I've never been in a campaign with spells over 5th level, so I can't make personal judgements, merely those based on my knowledge of sematics.
Radijs 03-13-07, 08:15 PM	Yeah, but permanency itself can be dispelled as well. A targeted dispel magic on an object on wich the symbol is pasted has a chance to destroy both the symbol by destroying the permanency.