Threatening, AoO, and Flying [Archive] - Wizards Community

Threatening, AoO, and Flying [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
eamon
07-18-07, 05:54 AM Someone lately claimed that while flying, (in case it matters, with poor manuverability) you don't threaten the fields around you, or at least, you can't take an attack of opportunity. Specifically, should a flying character approach a flying (and fleeing) dragon from "behind" and enter it's 10-foot reach, and approach upto 5ft, would that character provoke an AoO? On the ground he would. The rules surrounding flying are complex, but I couldn't find anything about threatening at first sight. Does anybody know?
Androcus Divinicus
07-18-07, 06:17 AM I would think that you threaten normally at any point that you're using a type of movement that is normal for you. If you have a fly speed, then I think it's perfectly reasonable that you can make AoOs while flying. To a flyer, it'd be just like a human making an AoO while walking. It'd be just the same as allowing a shark an AoO while swiming.

Regards,
Justin.
Marcus Majarra
07-18-07, 12:40 PM I don't think this has to do with having the movement speed. The PHB defines threatened squares as those into which you can make melee attacks. Even if you don't have a climb speed, you can still make melee attacks while climbing. The same logic applies to all movement speeds.

This said, flying creatures threaten the squares into which they can make melee attacks. If they can attack that square, they also threaten it, and can execute AoOs against creatures inside it. Since tri-dimensional movement is an issue here, the threatened squares also include squares within reach that are below and above the flying creature. Manueverability is not an issue here.
PenderGrass
07-18-07, 03:31 PM I don't think this has to do with having the movement speed. The PHB defines threatened squares as those into which you can make melee attacks. Even if you don't have a climb speed, you can still make melee attacks while climbing. The same logic applies to all movement speeds.
One thing to note here, typically, it requires both hands to climb.

Therefore, if someone were climbing, they are not going to have a weapon out unless they specifically draw the weapon (and stop climbing). So, by default, most climbers are not going to be able to make any melee attacks or AoOs.

At least, not automatically.

:dragon:
****
Androcus Divinicus
07-19-07, 12:42 PM I don't think this has to do with having the movement speed. The PHB defines threatened squares as those into which you can make melee attacks. Even if you don't have a climb speed, you can still make melee attacks while climbing. The same logic applies to all movement speeds.

You're right, of course ... and I realize that my way of thinking doesn't exactly square with the rules ... but my thought on it is this: If you're paying attention to manuvering yourself around a foreign environment, you probably can't exploit the opportunity in an Attack of Opportunity (unless of course you're moving by virtue of a magical spell, or you have x ranks in relevant skill ... I play it by ear to achieve as much "realism" as I can).

J.
Marcus Majarra
07-19-07, 12:51 PM One thing to note here, typically, it requires both hands to climb.

Therefore, if someone were climbing, they are not going to have a weapon out unless they specifically draw the weapon (and stop climbing). So, by default, most climbers are not going to be able to make any melee attacks or AoOs.

At least, not automatically.
Quite true. Of course, there are many attack forms that don't require the use of hands. Among these are unarmed strikes, natural weapons (barring slams and foreclaws), armor spikes, and the occasional odd exotic weapon.
PenderGrass
07-19-07, 12:54 PM Yeah, that foot bow was kinda pushing it. ;)

:dragon:
****
Marcus Majarra
07-19-07, 01:02 PM Yeah, that foot bow was kinda pushing it.
Actually, the weapon exists. It's in Races of the Wild. I removed it from the list above because I didn't remember if you needed hands to load it. Technically, you only need your feet to fire it.
olshanski_home
07-19-07, 01:04 PM Someone (http://boards1.wizards.com/member.php?u=273702) has led you astray. You still threaten while flying and you can make AoO into any threatened space while flying.

A pretty significant flaw in D&D is the fact that flying creatures have a direction of travel, but not a particular facing. While the dragon may have to follow a path based on its maneuverability, there is nothing in the rules about which way the dragon is facing.
mvincent
07-19-07, 01:06 PM Someone lately claimed that while flying, (in case it matters, with poor manuverability) you don't threaten the fields around you, or at least, you can't take an attack of opportunity. Specifically, should a flying character approach a flying (and fleeing) dragon from "behind" and enter it's 10-foot reach, and approach upto 5ft, would that character provoke an AoO? On the ground he would. The rules surrounding flying are complex, but I couldn't find anything about threatening at first sight. Does anybody know?If you can attack someone (with a threatening weapon), then you threaten them. The rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm) say "The dragon can slam opponents with its wings, even when flying", so the dragon's other weapons can certainly threaten as well.

If someone is approaching a dragon from behind, I might still allow them to make a hide check if desired (as if they cover or concealment during their approach).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
eamon 07-18-07, 05:54 AM	Someone lately claimed that while flying, (in case it matters, with poor manuverability) you don't threaten the fields around you, or at least, you can't take an attack of opportunity. Specifically, should a flying character approach a flying (and fleeing) dragon from "behind" and enter it's 10-foot reach, and approach upto 5ft, would that character provoke an AoO? On the ground he would. The rules surrounding flying are complex, but I couldn't find anything about threatening at first sight. Does anybody know?
Androcus Divinicus 07-18-07, 06:17 AM	I would think that you threaten normally at any point that you're using a type of movement that is normal for you. If you have a fly speed, then I think it's perfectly reasonable that you can make AoOs while flying. To a flyer, it'd be just like a human making an AoO while walking. It'd be just the same as allowing a shark an AoO while swiming. Regards, Justin.
Marcus Majarra 07-18-07, 12:40 PM	I don't think this has to do with having the movement speed. The PHB defines threatened squares as those into which you can make melee attacks. Even if you don't have a climb speed, you can still make melee attacks while climbing. The same logic applies to all movement speeds. This said, flying creatures threaten the squares into which they can make melee attacks. If they can attack that square, they also threaten it, and can execute AoOs against creatures inside it. Since tri-dimensional movement is an issue here, the threatened squares also include squares within reach that are below and above the flying creature. Manueverability is not an issue here.
PenderGrass 07-18-07, 03:31 PM	I don't think this has to do with having the movement speed. The PHB defines threatened squares as those into which you can make melee attacks. Even if you don't have a climb speed, you can still make melee attacks while climbing. The same logic applies to all movement speeds. One thing to note here, typically, it requires both hands to climb. Therefore, if someone were climbing, they are not going to have a weapon out unless they specifically draw the weapon (and stop climbing). So, by default, most climbers are not going to be able to make any melee attacks or AoOs. At least, not automatically. :dragon: ****
Androcus Divinicus 07-19-07, 12:42 PM	I don't think this has to do with having the movement speed. The PHB defines threatened squares as those into which you can make melee attacks. Even if you don't have a climb speed, you can still make melee attacks while climbing. The same logic applies to all movement speeds. You're right, of course ... and I realize that my way of thinking doesn't exactly square with the rules ... but my thought on it is this: If you're paying attention to manuvering yourself around a foreign environment, you probably can't exploit the opportunity in an Attack of Opportunity (unless of course you're moving by virtue of a magical spell, or you have x ranks in relevant skill ... I play it by ear to achieve as much "realism" as I can). J.
Marcus Majarra 07-19-07, 12:51 PM	One thing to note here, typically, it requires both hands to climb. Therefore, if someone were climbing, they are not going to have a weapon out unless they specifically draw the weapon (and stop climbing). So, by default, most climbers are not going to be able to make any melee attacks or AoOs. At least, not automatically. Quite true. Of course, there are many attack forms that don't require the use of hands. Among these are unarmed strikes, natural weapons (barring slams and foreclaws), armor spikes, and the occasional odd exotic weapon.
PenderGrass 07-19-07, 12:54 PM	Yeah, that foot bow was kinda pushing it. ;) :dragon: ****
Marcus Majarra 07-19-07, 01:02 PM	Yeah, that foot bow was kinda pushing it. Actually, the weapon exists. It's in Races of the Wild. I removed it from the list above because I didn't remember if you needed hands to load it. Technically, you only need your feet to fire it.
olshanski_home 07-19-07, 01:04 PM	Someone (http://boards1.wizards.com/member.php?u=273702) has led you astray. You still threaten while flying and you can make AoO into any threatened space while flying. A pretty significant flaw in D&D is the fact that flying creatures have a direction of travel, but not a particular facing. While the dragon may have to follow a path based on its maneuverability, there is nothing in the rules about which way the dragon is facing.
mvincent 07-19-07, 01:06 PM	Someone lately claimed that while flying, (in case it matters, with poor manuverability) you don't threaten the fields around you, or at least, you can't take an attack of opportunity. Specifically, should a flying character approach a flying (and fleeing) dragon from "behind" and enter it's 10-foot reach, and approach upto 5ft, would that character provoke an AoO? On the ground he would. The rules surrounding flying are complex, but I couldn't find anything about threatening at first sight. Does anybody know?If you can attack someone (with a threatening weapon), then you threaten them. The rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm) say "The dragon can slam opponents with its wings, even when flying", so the dragon's other weapons can certainly threaten as well. If someone is approaching a dragon from behind, I might still allow them to make a hide check if desired (as if they cover or concealment during their approach).