Threatening with a ranged weapon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Threatening with a ranged weapon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
KingMarl
02-03-07, 08:43 AM I thought I recalled a feat or special ability somewhere that would allow a character to threaten with a ranged weapon, but I can't seem to find it.

Anyone out there recall such a thing? I searched the whole online feat list, but that's not 100% complete and in any event does not include class-specific abilities.

Thanks!
Darkmatter20
02-03-07, 08:54 AM Ranger spell in the spell compendium
KingMarl
02-03-07, 01:12 PM Ranger spell in the spell compendium

Arrow Mind is close, but not quite what I was looking for - I'm looking more to threaten at greater than melee range.

Just skimmed virtually all of my books though, and can't find anything like it, not even in Nine Swords (though Nine Swords does have that nasty stance where 5 ft. steps provoke attacks of opportunity).
Thubby
02-03-07, 03:00 PM i think the order of the bow initiate (comp war) gets the ability to threaten with a bow.
High Octane
02-03-07, 05:07 PM I doubt such an ability would be acceptable before epic level. To have a threat range of the range of a bow? What is that 1000 feet?

If you had a threat range of 30 feet would even be unacceptable pre-epic. Attacks of oppurtunity from 30 feet away?
ciryx2k
02-03-07, 05:53 PM i think the order of the bow initiate (comp war) gets the ability to threaten with a bow.

Order of the Bow Initiate does get an ability that allows them to use bow attacks in melee, thus threatening with it while adjacent to a foe. It does not make them threaten a foe at range though.

As far as I know of, nothing in the game allows you to threaten a target from a range, this would allow an AoO any time a foe within the max range of your weapon moves.
KingMarl
02-03-07, 07:47 PM I agree whole-heartedly with the above - it would be completely unacceptable except at epic level.

However, I'm running an epic campaign :)

But in any case, I am pretty sure that I was confusing a combination of the epic Spellcasting Harrier feat with the Mage Slayer feat from Complete Arcane. Combining those with the Arrow Mind spell comes close, but I agree, there appears to be no mechanic for what I'm looking for.

But there's more.

It seems clear that you have to threaten with a melee attack, but from the SRD:

Threatened Squares
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.

(bold italics mine)

While the SRD says that means the squares next to you, it pretty clearly leaves it open for other circumstances. If there were an ability that let you move as a swift action, i.e. at any time, would that mean that you threaten all squares that you can reach from anyplace you can move to?

I ask because there's a maneuver in the Book of Nine Swords that does exactly that - you get to teleport up to 50 feet as a swift action - not, I will point out, as an immediate action. Thus, in theory you could choose the point in time at which the spellcaster is casting to teleport, and then you'd threaten them, bringing either the Mage Slayer or Spellcasting Harrier feats into play. Or so I read it, based on the mechanics of swift actions and threatened squares.

For anyone interested, the maneuver is Shadow Blink, a 7th-level Shadow Hand maneuver.
KingMarl
02-03-07, 07:50 PM I doubt such an ability would be acceptable before epic level. To have a threat range of the range of a bow? What is that 1000 feet?

Actually, if it were at any range the bow could reach, it would be worse than that - take a look at the Distant Shot feat:

Benefit
You may throw or fire a ranged weapon at any target within line of sight, with no penalty for range.
Whisper_Swiftblade
02-03-07, 07:57 PM I agree whole-heartedly with the above - it would be completely unacceptable except at epic level.

However, I'm running an epic campaign :)

But in any case, I am pretty sure that I was confusing a combination of the epic Spellcasting Harrier feat with the Mage Slayer feat from Complete Arcane. Combining those with the Arrow Mind spell comes close, but I agree, there appears to be no mechanic for what I'm looking for.

But there's more.

It seems clear that you have to threaten with a melee attack, but from the SRD:

(bold italics mine)

While the SRD says that means the squares next to you, it pretty clearly leaves it open for other circumstances.

like for example reach weapons, but other than that I have no ideas
J_Riley
02-04-07, 02:34 PM Order of the Bow Initiate does get an ability that allows them to use bow attacks in melee, thus threatening with it while adjacent to a foe. It does not make them threaten a foe at range though.

Actually, the ability is called Close Combat Shot and it allows the Order of the Bow initiate to attack in a threatened square without provoking an AoO...it doesn't allow the bow user to threaten.
Neutronium_Dragon
02-04-07, 02:39 PM The Peerless Archer PrC in the Silver Marches book gains the ability to threaten with a bow, but only out to a short range.
KingMarl
02-04-07, 10:22 PM ... there's a maneuver in the Book of Nine Swords that does exactly that - you get to teleport up to 50 feet as a swift action - not, I will point out, as an immediate action. Thus, in theory you could choose the point in time at which the spellcaster is casting to teleport, and then you'd threaten them, bringing either the Mage Slayer or Spellcasting Harrier feats into play. Or so I read it, based on the mechanics of swift actions and threatened squares.

And I curse WoTC for bringing swift and immediate actions into the game, because I continually get them backwards. My question is moot, as it's a swift action, and thus cannot be used as part of an AoO.

*phew*

Guess I'll just have to always make sure someone with a ranged weapon or spell readies an action to peg the spellcaster.
alangriffith
03-01-07, 09:59 PM Arrow Demons (Monster Manual 3, page 34) may "make attacks of opportunity as if it threatened the squares adjacent to it with its bows."
(arrow demons have four arms and wield two bows at once). Their extraordinary ability (close combat shot) also allows them to make melee-range attacks with bows without incurring attacks of opportunity.

Sadly, arrow demons make level 18 PCs (10 HD, +8 LA).
BlackTemplar
09-14-07, 04:14 PM The Peerless Archer PrC in the Silver Marches book gains the ability to threaten with a bow, but only out to a short range.

Up to 10" and that would be at level 15 min.
Marcus Majarra
09-15-07, 02:44 AM While the SRD says that means the squares next to you, it pretty clearly leaves it open for other circumstances. If there were an ability that let you move as a swift action, i.e. at any time, would that mean that you threaten all squares that you can reach from anyplace you can move to?
It doesn't work this way. Being able to move as a swift action doesn't equate to being able to make a melee attack at this point. Even if I could draw a weapon as a free action by virtue of Quick-Draw, I still don't threaten while unarmed, even if I have a weapon I could draw. To determine threat, you see if you could attack right away, under the current conditions; you're not allowed to change the conditions to determine threat.

As for the other circumstances you speak of, these are mostly for creatures with reach (or using reach weapons). These creatures can make melee attacks into non-adjacent squares, which is why they threaten beyond adjacent squares.
eamon
09-17-07, 12:30 PM Marcus's explanation is how I understand AoO's as well. You only threaten those squares which you can attack without preparation. Conceptually, you're not preparing the attack (thus can't take preparatory actions, not even free actions), it's an opportunity which presents itself unexpectedly.

Of course, if you expect a creature to start casting, you could use an immediate action before he does so - but you need to choose before he starts so that you're threatening on time. In general, I'd assume you can't interrupt another's action unless there's some specific rule which says you can (barring DM-ruling). Given the abstract notion of D&D combat, I can't think of a standard action which is obviously long enough to allow an interruption if you're not prepared. If you want to prepare... you can ready an action ;-).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KingMarl 02-03-07, 08:43 AM	I thought I recalled a feat or special ability somewhere that would allow a character to threaten with a ranged weapon, but I can't seem to find it. Anyone out there recall such a thing? I searched the whole online feat list, but that's not 100% complete and in any event does not include class-specific abilities. Thanks!
Darkmatter20 02-03-07, 08:54 AM	Ranger spell in the spell compendium
KingMarl 02-03-07, 01:12 PM	Ranger spell in the spell compendium Arrow Mind is close, but not quite what I was looking for - I'm looking more to threaten at greater than melee range. Just skimmed virtually all of my books though, and can't find anything like it, not even in Nine Swords (though Nine Swords does have that nasty stance where 5 ft. steps provoke attacks of opportunity).
Thubby 02-03-07, 03:00 PM	i think the order of the bow initiate (comp war) gets the ability to threaten with a bow.
High Octane 02-03-07, 05:07 PM	I doubt such an ability would be acceptable before epic level. To have a threat range of the range of a bow? What is that 1000 feet? If you had a threat range of 30 feet would even be unacceptable pre-epic. Attacks of oppurtunity from 30 feet away?
ciryx2k 02-03-07, 05:53 PM	i think the order of the bow initiate (comp war) gets the ability to threaten with a bow. Order of the Bow Initiate does get an ability that allows them to use bow attacks in melee, thus threatening with it while adjacent to a foe. It does not make them threaten a foe at range though. As far as I know of, nothing in the game allows you to threaten a target from a range, this would allow an AoO any time a foe within the max range of your weapon moves.
KingMarl 02-03-07, 07:47 PM	I agree whole-heartedly with the above - it would be completely unacceptable except at epic level. However, I'm running an epic campaign :) But in any case, I am pretty sure that I was confusing a combination of the epic Spellcasting Harrier feat with the Mage Slayer feat from Complete Arcane. Combining those with the Arrow Mind spell comes close, but I agree, there appears to be no mechanic for what I'm looking for. But there's more. It seems clear that you have to threaten with a melee attack, but from the SRD: Threatened Squares You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity. (bold italics mine) While the SRD says that means the squares next to you, it pretty clearly leaves it open for other circumstances. If there were an ability that let you move as a swift action, i.e. at any time, would that mean that you threaten all squares that you can reach from anyplace you can move to? I ask because there's a maneuver in the Book of Nine Swords that does exactly that - you get to teleport up to 50 feet as a swift action - not, I will point out, as an immediate action. Thus, in theory you could choose the point in time at which the spellcaster is casting to teleport, and then you'd threaten them, bringing either the Mage Slayer or Spellcasting Harrier feats into play. Or so I read it, based on the mechanics of swift actions and threatened squares. For anyone interested, the maneuver is Shadow Blink, a 7th-level Shadow Hand maneuver.
KingMarl 02-03-07, 07:50 PM	I doubt such an ability would be acceptable before epic level. To have a threat range of the range of a bow? What is that 1000 feet? Actually, if it were at any range the bow could reach, it would be worse than that - take a look at the Distant Shot feat: Benefit You may throw or fire a ranged weapon at any target within line of sight, with no penalty for range.
Whisper_Swiftblade 02-03-07, 07:57 PM	I agree whole-heartedly with the above - it would be completely unacceptable except at epic level. However, I'm running an epic campaign :) But in any case, I am pretty sure that I was confusing a combination of the epic Spellcasting Harrier feat with the Mage Slayer feat from Complete Arcane. Combining those with the Arrow Mind spell comes close, but I agree, there appears to be no mechanic for what I'm looking for. But there's more. It seems clear that you have to threaten with a melee attack, but from the SRD: (bold italics mine) While the SRD says that means the squares next to you, it pretty clearly leaves it open for other circumstances. like for example reach weapons, but other than that I have no ideas
J_Riley 02-04-07, 02:34 PM	Order of the Bow Initiate does get an ability that allows them to use bow attacks in melee, thus threatening with it while adjacent to a foe. It does not make them threaten a foe at range though. Actually, the ability is called Close Combat Shot and it allows the Order of the Bow initiate to attack in a threatened square without provoking an AoO...it doesn't allow the bow user to threaten.
Neutronium_Dragon 02-04-07, 02:39 PM	The Peerless Archer PrC in the Silver Marches book gains the ability to threaten with a bow, but only out to a short range.
KingMarl 02-04-07, 10:22 PM	... there's a maneuver in the Book of Nine Swords that does exactly that - you get to teleport up to 50 feet as a swift action - not, I will point out, as an immediate action. Thus, in theory you could choose the point in time at which the spellcaster is casting to teleport, and then you'd threaten them, bringing either the Mage Slayer or Spellcasting Harrier feats into play. Or so I read it, based on the mechanics of swift actions and threatened squares. And I curse WoTC for bringing swift and immediate actions into the game, because I continually get them backwards. My question is moot, as it's a swift action, and thus cannot be used as part of an AoO. phew Guess I'll just have to always make sure someone with a ranged weapon or spell readies an action to peg the spellcaster.
alangriffith 03-01-07, 09:59 PM	Arrow Demons (Monster Manual 3, page 34) may "make attacks of opportunity as if it threatened the squares adjacent to it with its bows." (arrow demons have four arms and wield two bows at once). Their extraordinary ability (close combat shot) also allows them to make melee-range attacks with bows without incurring attacks of opportunity. Sadly, arrow demons make level 18 PCs (10 HD, +8 LA).
BlackTemplar 09-14-07, 04:14 PM	The Peerless Archer PrC in the Silver Marches book gains the ability to threaten with a bow, but only out to a short range. Up to 10" and that would be at level 15 min.
Marcus Majarra 09-15-07, 02:44 AM	While the SRD says that means the squares next to you, it pretty clearly leaves it open for other circumstances. If there were an ability that let you move as a swift action, i.e. at any time, would that mean that you threaten all squares that you can reach from anyplace you can move to? It doesn't work this way. Being able to move as a swift action doesn't equate to being able to make a melee attack at this point. Even if I could draw a weapon as a free action by virtue of Quick-Draw, I still don't threaten while unarmed, even if I have a weapon I could draw. To determine threat, you see if you could attack right away, under the current conditions; you're not allowed to change the conditions to determine threat. As for the other circumstances you speak of, these are mostly for creatures with reach (or using reach weapons). These creatures can make melee attacks into non-adjacent squares, which is why they threaten beyond adjacent squares.
eamon 09-17-07, 12:30 PM	Marcus's explanation is how I understand AoO's as well. You only threaten those squares which you can attack without preparation. Conceptually, you're not preparing the attack (thus can't take preparatory actions, not even free actions), it's an opportunity which presents itself unexpectedly. Of course, if you expect a creature to start casting, you could use an immediate action before he does so - but you need to choose before he starts so that you're threatening on time. In general, I'd assume you can't interrupt another's action unless there's some specific rule which says you can (barring DM-ruling). Given the abstract notion of D&D combat, I can't think of a standard action which is obviously long enough to allow an interruption if you're not prepared. If you want to prepare... you can ready an action ;-).