Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NoxBestia 08-20-07, 12:34 AM	Greetings; At about 03:45 hours today, my game ground to a halt due to a mix of player/DM exhaustion and then total confusion regarding a simple natural hazard; the thunderstorm. Page 94 of the DMG states, “Thunderstorm: In addition to wind and precipitation (usually rain, but sometimes also hail), thunderstorms are accompanied by lightning that can pose a hazard to characters without proper shelter (especially those in metal armor). As a rule of thumb, assume one bolt per minute for a 1-hour period at the center of the storm. Each bolt causes electricity damage equal to 1d10 eight-sided dice. One in ten thunderstorms is accompanied by a tornado (see below).” I have encountered numerous modules where players are “forced” to take shelter from a thunderstorm in some abandoned {whatever}, thus beginning the adventure. What if you aren’t specifically planning one of those modules and/or your players want to try to brave the storm? Living in Colorado, I am no stranger to thunderstorms, and even taking into account one of my favorite fantasy elements of “nature is hostile and out to get you” the above referenced paragraph makes absolutely no sense. If we assume statistical averages, then each lightning strike does around 45 points of damage. That means that in the 1-hour period an average of 2,700 points of lightning damage may happen and a large amount of life would be extinguished with each thunderstorm. I simply can’t just buy into that without at least trying to get answers for the following questions being: 1. What determines the center of the storm? 2. How big is the center of the storm? 3. The “danger” period is listed as 1 hour, but how long does the entire storm last? 4. Storms move. How should that be handled? 5. How does one rule on where in this center of the storm lightning strikes? 6. How does one determine whether players, NPCs, animals, or even trees are in danger of lightning strike and how does terrain affect this?a. What if the storm is in a heavily forested area? b. What if the storm is in a lightly forested area? c. What if the storm is in an open area? d. What if the storm is in a town but for some reason the PC’s can’t get inside the buildings for protection? 7. If the storm happens to be one of the 10% that include a tornado then there are more questions such as:a. How does one determine the number of funnel clouds? b. How should one represent the randomness of the tornado’s path? c. How many times in a single Thunderstorm (with tornadoes) might tornadoes form? I am looking forward to reading the replies to this one. Thanks!
claypigeons 08-20-07, 01:58 AM	While it's not really helpful, and doesn't directly answer any of your questions... If getting struck by lightning, or running away from a tornado is relavent to your game, it happens. If you don't care, and/or you can't think of anything that would result from it, don't worry about it. Making a bunch of rolls trying to determine is something happens is mind-numbingly boring.
NoxBestia 08-20-07, 04:15 AM	I want my players to feel threatened by the storm and not just immune to "nature's wrath" but I also don't want to just arbitrarily say that they get struck. :schemes: As for rolling a bunch of dice, I greatly agree. When we actually started using crafting for expensive items, I was so appalled by the number of dice rolls and sheer mechanics that I wrote the "Mad Gnome Craft-O-Matic" to make all the rolls for us and tell us how much time it took and total cost, calculating for loss of materials due to failures and everything. For my stubborn players I even made it so it accepts their rolls for each day or week progress check but after a few uses and lots of dice rolls, everyone just agrees to press the "Just Finish the Damned Thing" button at let the program do it. If I have to write a program like that for chance of getting hit by lightning, I will do so... but I would still need a better guideline as to what they were thinking when they wrote that section in the DMG... or another reference I could base my program off of. I haven't backtracked and checked my 2nd or 1st edition books to see what they have, if anything...
eamon 08-20-07, 05:57 AM	Most of the things you ask I'd rule ad hoc. If you as a DM determine that the party is within the danger zone then they are. From a realism standpoint, I'd expect that more often than not, they won't be. If they are within the danger area and you want to determine whether they're struck, then I would suggest that on open plains, the chance of being struck by a strike should never exceed 50%, and that's if they're swinging greatswords in metal armor. In a forest or city, you might reduce this down to 5% (i.e. just make a d20 roll and judge beforehand how likely you think a strike is). For added drama, you might consider another 5% chance of a nearby lightning strike which can cause electrocution via ground discharge, or fell a tree (6d6 reflex DC 12 for none say) or start a fire etc. But if you want to play it "fair" then what I do, is predetermine the flow of the storm in advance, and with this determine the amount of time they're in the real storm and the number of storm related hazards they'll encounter - and make a reasonable table for which hazard it is each time in advance. That way, each minute you just need to look at your map (even only roughly) to see whether they're in the true storm or just outside (and so need less frequent events or even none), and roll a d20 to determine which hazard happens. No matter what, you'll need strong ad hoc rulings, though.
Anathema 08-20-07, 11:18 AM	Ad hoc sounds like the way I'd govern it as well. As far as getting struck by lightning, I'd say that the players chance of getting struck is directly proportional to how exposed they are. You also want to incorporate the idea that there is some kind of tangible malevolence behind the storm; and honestly, this is something that only you can decide on, because only you know how hostile you want your storms to be. In the end my advice on dangerous thunderstorms is the same as my advice for burning houses: It should be as dangerous as it needs to be in order to be dramatic. I understand that you don't want to arbitrarily decide when your players get hit with lightning, but you're already deciding on many factors that would put them in greater or lesser danger of getting randomly hit to begin with; when and where the storm hits, how much cover they potentially have, and possibly at a time where they're all dressed for battle and wearing their suits of armor. Arbitrarily deciding allows you to keep control of the situation, and to ramp up the damage of the lightning as needed for dramatic effect.
NoxBestia 08-20-07, 07:02 PM	Thank you all for your thoughts and input; it is sincerely appreciated. Falling back to Rule 0 wasn't exactly what I was hoping for, but since that seems to be the consensus, I shall now begin my scheming in that direction. Between the Storm Elemental from MM3 and a few more suggestions from the 1st Edition Wilderness Survival Guide, and the advice you all have given me, I came up with the following idea and I'd love to know what everyone thinks of it: After setting the size, direction, and speed of the storm, I will roll 1d20 for each minute the party is within the danger area of the storm. If my roll is a 20, then each member of the party must roll d20. If any of them get a 1 then they are in danger. When the party is in danger, I will give them warning signs (hair stands up, tingling feeling, etc.). That will give them 1 round to act. If the actions that the characters take still leave them in danger, then I will strike. Each character still in danger gets a REF save (DC15). For each point above 15, I will remove one of the d8's of damage. The DMG states that each strike does d10 number of d8's worth of damage, so a save of 20 means that the character has a 50% chance of taking no damage at all (statistically speaking). A save of 25+ would pretty much guarantee that a person took no damage.