Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arr MiHardies 10-27-07, 01:05 PM	What are the effects of having total concealment and making a sneak attack? Should the sneak attack be allowed if you have total concealment?
Timori 10-27-07, 01:59 PM	If the defender has concealment from the attacker, no. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. If the attacker is somehow concealed but can see the defender clearly, sure.
1 ton ghost 10-27-07, 03:07 PM	this is a major arguement for smokesticks, darkberries, anything that can cause a localized temporary amount of concealment. big fan of rogues w/ darkvision targeting lanterns and torches which in turn becomes sneak attack heaven. -rogue frequently hide in the "fringe" of concealment (often getting Hide bonues) while travelers on the road have none (forest was cleared for road). standard highwaymen ambush. soon as you attack into Concealment, yeah, you cannot accurately pinpoint vital organs and the like.
weasel0 10-27-07, 06:02 PM	Yes it should be allowed. The attack gives the victem a +20 to spot you.
Arr MiHardies 10-28-07, 11:25 AM	In this situation, the defender does not have concealment, and the rogue does. Here is another question concerning sneak attack. Say the rogue has a feat or skill trick that allows their next attack to be resolved as a touch attack. This denies the target their armor bonus. If the target is flat footed, they are also denied their dex bonus. So, basically, If the rogue used this ability for the purposes of executing a sneak attack, the targes effective armor class would be 10, correct? I can't think of any bonuses to AC that wouldn't be negated by the combination of these two situations.
Marcus Majarra 10-28-07, 12:20 PM	n this situation, the defender does not have concealment, and the rogue does. Here is another question concerning sneak attack. Say the rogue has a feat or skill trick that allows their next attack to be resolved as a touch attack. This denies the target their armor bonus. If the target is flat footed, they are also denied their dex bonus. So, basically, If the rogue used this ability for the purposes of executing a sneak attack, the targes effective armor class would be 10, correct? I can't think of any bonuses to AC that wouldn't be negated by the combination of these two situations. 1) Having total concealment generally means that your opponent cannot see you. However, it's not the fact that you have total concealment that denies your opponent his Dex bonus to AC; it's the fact that it can't see you. As such, when you're invisible with respect to your opponent, your opponent is denied his Dex bonus to AC and sneak attacks become possible. Keep in mind, however, that the uncanny dodge ability allows a creature to retain its Dex bonus to AC against opponents it cannot see (and thus negating sneak attacks). 2) If the opponent is flat-footed and the attacker resolves its attack as a touch attack, the opponent is denied Dex, dodge, armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses to AC. Any other bonuses or penalties (including size, deflection, and a monk's intrinsic bonus to AC) are still retained.
SiuiS 10-29-07, 12:29 PM	Two points. One, isn't the monk's AC bonus stated as being equivalent to a dodge bonus? I recall that the bonus from wisdom goes away if he is ever denied his dodge bonuses (whether or not he actually has any), but I guess a case could be made for the flat +whatever for his level staying in place... Two, what about rule effects that that only say you gain concealment against an enemy, but says nothing about them gaining concealment from you? Could I use the cloak dance feat from Expanded Psionincs Handbook to gain concealment, and then still hit my target with a sneak attack (given that I had an attack available)?
Marcus Majarra 10-29-07, 01:25 PM	One, isn't the monk's AC bonus stated as being equivalent to a dodge bonus? I recall that the bonus from wisdom goes away if he is ever denied his dodge bonuses (whether or not he actually has any), but I guess a case could be made for the flat +whatever for his level staying in place... No, the monk's bonus to AC does not equate to a dodge bonus. It's explicitly stated that this bonus to AC even applies against touch attacks and when the monk is flat-footed. In fact, the only times during which the monk is denied this bonus is when the monk is immobilized or helpless, when the monk wears any armor, when the monk carries a shield, or when the monk carries a medium or heavy load. Two, what about rule effects that that only say you gain concealment against an enemy, but says nothing about them gaining concealment from you? Could I use the cloak dance feat from Expanded Psionincs Handbook to gain concealment, and then still hit my target with a sneak attack (given that I had an attack available)? Having concealment (even total) does not deny your opponent his Dex bonus to AC. So sneak attacks are not a valid option by virtue of concealment of any kind.
Colmarr 10-30-07, 09:30 PM	Having concealment (even total) does not deny your opponent his Dex bonus to AC. So sneak attacks are not a valid option by virtue of concealment of any kind. Agreed, but for the sake of completeness: concealment does allow a hide check and a successful hide check can in the right circumstances allow a rogue to sneak attack.