Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wattas 04-11-07, 03:15 PM	Is this addressed anywhere, in any rules, FAQ, errata, etc? Does anybody know if it works? For example, if you have a character that has a bite attack (which he can use as his primary attack or as a secondary attack at a -5 penalty), and he has TWF, can he make 2 attacks with his weapons at a -2 penalty, and then attack with his bite at a -5 (-7?) penalty? It doesn't sound like it works, but I can't find anything explicit on it yet. Thanks!
Marendithas_the_Necro 04-11-07, 03:20 PM	Yes it work, check the FAQ, but for example: a minotaur ranger 2 He fights with a longsword and a lightmace so -2 attacks and if he wants to attack with his gore attack he have -5 so -7. But feats exist: Multiattack if you have 3 or more natural attacks like a half-dragon and if you want something more powerful take improved multiattack http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiattack
Wattas 04-11-07, 03:25 PM	Wow, ok, so it does work. Is it actually in the FAQ then? I'll have to check it again I guess. Any idea where, by any chance--combat, feats, etc.? Thanks for the quick reply to my post btw. :)
NoldorForce 04-11-07, 03:48 PM	Fighting with multiple manufactured weapons and multiple natural weapons are separate. Effectively fighting with multiple manufactured weapons requires the Two-Weapon Fighting (or Multiweapon Fighting) tree, and even then still forces a -2 penalty to the attacks with those weapons. These penalties do not show up when using other attacks, as the description of the combat style in general explicitly assesses the penalties to the weapons used. Two-Weapon Fighting (the feat) does not contradict this. Effectively fighting with multiple natural weapons requires Multiattack, which reduces the penalties for secondary weapons to -2. It's otherwise -5. To sum up, if you used two manufactured weapons in addition to a bite attack in a single full attack, the bite would be automatically treated as secondary; this distinction occurs whenever you're simultaneously using natural and manufactured weapons. Your manufactured weapon attacks would take a -2 penalty from TWFing, and your bite would take a -5 penalty. Nothing about this (TWFing and using natural weapons) seems to exist in the FAQ.
Marcus Majarra 04-11-07, 03:53 PM	Actually, the penalty for fighting with two weapons does not carry out to natural weapons. Thus, a minotaur two-weapon fighter could attack with two weapons with the appropriate penalties, and follow-up with a secondary gore attack, taking only the appropriate penalty for attacking with a secondary natural weapon. Here's a concrete example: Minotaur ranger 2 (Str 24, BAB+8), fighting with a large longsword and a large shortsword, wearing light armor. Its full attack entry would be: Longsword +12/+7 melee (2d6+7/19-20) and shortsword +12 melee (1d8+3/19-20) and gore +9 melee (1d8+3)
Wattas 04-11-07, 04:01 PM	Thanks for all the info guys. Yeah, the -7 penalty thing just somehow seemed wrong. Good to know. Once again, thanks.
tos_shai_hulud 04-11-07, 04:30 PM	The Two-Weapon fighting feat has odd wording. What constitutes a regular attack, and does it mean and/or attacks with your primary hand or either/or attacks with your primary hand: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)
NoldorForce 04-11-07, 07:11 PM	The phrase "regular attack or attacks" refers to your primary hand, as explained immediately afterwards. That it says "attack or attacks" refers to the fact that characters with +6 BAB get iterative attacks with manufactured weapons. (I think that's what you were asking...)
tos_shai_hulud 04-11-07, 07:14 PM	The phrase "regular attack or attacks" refers to your primary hand, as explained immediately afterwards. That it says "attack or attacks" refers to the fact that characters with +6 BAB get iterative attacks with manufactured weapons. (I think that's what you were asking...) I see, I was placing the emphasis on the wrong place in the sentence. I thought it was saying: ...you suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand You are saying that it is: ...you suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand Ok, that causes it to make sense now, thanks :-P.