Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rocketmonkey 07-12-07, 07:42 AM	Morning all. How do you calculate the pool of undead that a non-caster can create and control using UMD to activate scrolls and staves of Animate Dead and so on?
Leilond 07-12-07, 07:51 AM	Morning all. How do you calculate the pool of undead that a non-caster can create and control using UMD to activate scrolls and staves of Animate Dead and so on? A scroll always have a "caster level" That caster level indicate how many "undead" you can controll with that spell If you use another scroll you'll use the higest caster level
Rocketmonkey 07-12-07, 08:25 AM	Thanks, that seems nicely straightforward. I do have a question about the 'highest caster level' bit, though... If you're sticking with scrolls there's no problem, since each has a set caster level and you can just work with the highest (as you pointed out). But what if the character has a staff of animate dead? I'm assuming he could use the 'emulate class feature' part of UMD to fake a caster level and use that in place of the staff's default caster level. If the character activated the staff repeatedly, would you use his latest caster level or his highest caster level to calculate the pool of controlled undead? If it's calculated from the highest result it might be open to abuse; it would be relatively easy for a character to boost a one-time skill check into the stratosphere with one-shot items and spells (easier than getting a permanently high skill modifier, at any rate). On the other hand, if it's just calculated from his latest emulated caster level then a single bad roll could drastically shrink the pool of controlled undead and potentially release quite a few of them... actually, I quite like the sound of that.
Leilond 07-12-07, 08:45 AM	Thanks, that seems nicely straightforward. I do have a question about the 'highest caster level' bit, though... If you're sticking with scrolls there's no problem, since each has a set caster level and you can just work with the highest (as you pointed out). But what if the character has a staff of animate dead? I'm assuming he could use the 'emulate class feature' part of UMD to fake a caster level and use that in place of the staff's default caster level. We must first agree on the fact that "caster level" is a class feature. Someone thinks that it isn't so you cannot "emulate that". Some people say that "being able to cast divine spell" is a class feature, not "beign a 3rd level cleric" because you cannot say "being a cleric is a class feature of being a cleric". You can emulate a "class feature", not "a class itself". With a staff they will conced only the caster level of the staff, without the chance of improving it. With this understanding of the rule if a rogue use a staff of fireball that contains 5d6 fireball, he will fire 5d6 fireball. Only a wizard/sorceror can fire more powerfull fireball with that staff If the character activated the staff repeatedly, would you use his latest caster level or his highest caster level to calculate the pool of controlled undead? If you admit that you can emulate "caster level" with UMD I will say "you apply the last check result". You've to pay attention, because if you fail a check I can force you to lose control of the other undead If it's calculated from the highest result it might be open to abuse; it would be relatively easy for a character to boost a one-time skill check into the stratosphere with one-shot items and spells (easier than getting a permanently high skill modifier, at any rate). On the other hand, if it's just calculated from his latest emulated caster level then a single bad roll could drastically shrink the pool of controlled undead and potentially release quite a few of them... actually, I quite like the sound of that. The second way look more "logical". You're a rogue, and you're playing with dangerous power. You're risking to lose the controll of the undeads if you insist in animating them. You cannot use that staff with the same effectiveness of a cleric
Madsamurai 07-12-07, 06:36 PM	Personally, It dosent make sense that an activation of an item could cause you to lose control of undead that are in no way related to the item in question. Ultimatly, I think I would just count the rogue as a caster of level = hes ranks in UMD - 3. That way, he could have as many undead as an equal level caster as long as he had invested fully into the skill. If you rule that you can emulate caster level, then I would base how many undead you could control off of your last check, but you would never lose control of "old" undead. Thus simulates that the hypothetical rogue must work harder each time he wants to expand his pool (of undead).
weasel0 07-13-07, 04:43 PM	A UMD check used in this manner only lasts an hour before you have to recheck again. "emulate class ability" And the example in the guide is Turn/Rebuke Undead.