Uncanny dodge rapid question.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Uncanny dodge rapid question.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
spikevampire
05-10-07, 05:45 PM My question deals with Uncanny dodge ability: i think it cannot prevent a sneak attack but only allow to react an attack and use DEX modifier to A.C.. I'm right?
"she retain her Dexterity bonus to A.C. even if she is flat flooted or attacked by an invisible enemy".

In the improved uncanny dodge ability, the character cannot be flanked, but a rogue 4 level higer can sneak attack him. So he can be even sneak attacked from invisible source, don't he?

"he cannot be flanked. This defence denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the barbarian by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue level than target barbarian level."
Donovan Morningfire
05-10-07, 06:15 PM Bingo.

Uncanny Dodge just means you get to keep any dodge bonuses to your AC when caught flat-footed.

Improved Uncanny Dodge keeps you from getting flanked or sneak attacked, unless the sneak attacker has 4 or more rogue levels than you have Uncanny Dodge levels.
Morwen
05-10-07, 06:53 PM Improved Uncanny Dodge keeps you from getting flanked or sneak attacked, unless the sneak attacker has 4 or more rogue levels than you have Uncanny Dodge levels.

Almost. You can be sneak attacked as normal. You can only be flanked by a rogue with 4 levels more than you have (which can affect whether or not you're in a position where you can be sneak attacked).
Merestil Haye
05-10-07, 06:54 PM An attack is a sneak attack if the attacker has the Sneak Attack feature and either of the following two conditions are true.

A defender with a Dexterity bonus to AC would be denied that bonus OR -
The attacker flanks the defender.

One of the easiest ways to deny a defender a Dex bonus to AC is to catch them off guard at the start of combat. A flat-footed defender would denied any Dex bonus to AC. If the defender has Uncanny Dodge, he would not be denied his Dex bonus to AC and the attacker can not sneak attack him.

There are plenty of other ways to be denied Dex bonus to AC that are not negated by Uncanny Dodge, which only negate the two specific causes it lists.
Nom
05-10-07, 08:04 PM So he can be even sneak attacked from invisible source, don't he?Not by virtue of the attacker being invisible.

Invisibility allows sneak attack by virtue of denying the target Dex to AC. UD allows the target to keep Dex to AC when attacked by an invisible attacker. Thus, the target cannot be sneak attacked by an invisible attacker (other mechanisms for denying Dex to AC notwithstanding).
spikevampire
05-11-07, 04:28 PM Sorry for my ignorance. So if i am flat floated with a 2 level barbarian and my attacker is a 20 lv rogue it can't sneak attack me because, in the description isn't a minimum level attacker must have. Right? Only in the improved uncanny dodge it is cleared.
spikevampire
05-11-07, 04:47 PM Ok last tag... So Uncanny dodge give a PC to use his DEX bonus versus sneak attacker (versus attacker caught him in a denied DEX status, like invisible attacker, feint in combat and other), so hi can't be sneak attacked by anyone (even if epic character), but if he is immobilized.

For improved uncanny dodge a PC can't be flanked and so on can't be sneak attacked from anyone, but if an attacker has 4 level more than defender with improved uncanny dogde, he can be. Right? o Jesus... XD

I ever played so, why i try to change things... XD

Please answer
Tectorman
05-13-07, 12:28 AM Okay, I went through the same thing and here's what I learned:

Read the description for Uncanny Dodge in Complete Adventurer; specifically, the Scout class description. It says that a Scout with Uncanny Dodge can't be caught flat-footed; it's a condition that can never apply to him. From what I've seen on the 3.5 FAQ and the Classes forum boards, that's what Wizards meant to say when they first wrote out the ability in the PHB; they just phrased it wrong.

I also learned that one should never mention 4th Edition, and above all, never say it's name three times in a row.
Nom
05-13-07, 08:16 AM Sorry for my ignorance. So if i am flat floated with a 2 level barbarian and my attacker is a 20 lv rogue it can't sneak attack me because, in the description isn't a minimum level attacker must have. Right? Only in the improved uncanny dodge it is cleared.Most of that is irrelevant. All you need to know is:

(1) level 2 barbarian => uncanny dodge => don't lose Dex to AC when flat-footed (or when attacked by inivisible attacker)

(2) flat footed, but retains Dex to AC.

(3) retains Dex to AC => not vulnerable to sneak attack unless flanked

The level comparison stuff is all Improved Uncanny Dodge, which applies to flanking, not losing Dex to AC.
spikevampire
05-14-07, 07:42 PM ooooooooooooooooooooook
tos_shai_hulud
05-15-07, 12:30 AM Additionally, if the level 2 barbarian is going against a rogue with the Improved Feint feat, the rogue could perform a feint. If he wins, your barbarian is denied his Dex bonus to AC versus the next attack from the rogue. That next attack would also be a sneak attack. Uncanny Dodge does not protect you from feints.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
spikevampire 05-10-07, 05:45 PM	My question deals with Uncanny dodge ability: i think it cannot prevent a sneak attack but only allow to react an attack and use DEX modifier to A.C.. I'm right? "she retain her Dexterity bonus to A.C. even if she is flat flooted or attacked by an invisible enemy". In the improved uncanny dodge ability, the character cannot be flanked, but a rogue 4 level higer can sneak attack him. So he can be even sneak attacked from invisible source, don't he? "he cannot be flanked. This defence denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the barbarian by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue level than target barbarian level."
Donovan Morningfire 05-10-07, 06:15 PM	Bingo. Uncanny Dodge just means you get to keep any dodge bonuses to your AC when caught flat-footed. Improved Uncanny Dodge keeps you from getting flanked or sneak attacked, unless the sneak attacker has 4 or more rogue levels than you have Uncanny Dodge levels.
Morwen 05-10-07, 06:53 PM	Improved Uncanny Dodge keeps you from getting flanked or sneak attacked, unless the sneak attacker has 4 or more rogue levels than you have Uncanny Dodge levels. Almost. You can be sneak attacked as normal. You can only be flanked by a rogue with 4 levels more than you have (which can affect whether or not you're in a position where you can be sneak attacked).
Merestil Haye 05-10-07, 06:54 PM	An attack is a sneak attack if the attacker has the Sneak Attack feature and either of the following two conditions are true. A defender with a Dexterity bonus to AC would be denied that bonus OR - The attacker flanks the defender. One of the easiest ways to deny a defender a Dex bonus to AC is to catch them off guard at the start of combat. A flat-footed defender would denied any Dex bonus to AC. If the defender has Uncanny Dodge, he would not be denied his Dex bonus to AC and the attacker can not sneak attack him. There are plenty of other ways to be denied Dex bonus to AC that are not negated by Uncanny Dodge, which only negate the two specific causes it lists.
Nom 05-10-07, 08:04 PM	So he can be even sneak attacked from invisible source, don't he?Not by virtue of the attacker being invisible. Invisibility allows sneak attack by virtue of denying the target Dex to AC. UD allows the target to keep Dex to AC when attacked by an invisible attacker. Thus, the target cannot be sneak attacked by an invisible attacker (other mechanisms for denying Dex to AC notwithstanding).
spikevampire 05-11-07, 04:28 PM	Sorry for my ignorance. So if i am flat floated with a 2 level barbarian and my attacker is a 20 lv rogue it can't sneak attack me because, in the description isn't a minimum level attacker must have. Right? Only in the improved uncanny dodge it is cleared.
spikevampire 05-11-07, 04:47 PM	Ok last tag... So Uncanny dodge give a PC to use his DEX bonus versus sneak attacker (versus attacker caught him in a denied DEX status, like invisible attacker, feint in combat and other), so hi can't be sneak attacked by anyone (even if epic character), but if he is immobilized. For improved uncanny dodge a PC can't be flanked and so on can't be sneak attacked from anyone, but if an attacker has 4 level more than defender with improved uncanny dogde, he can be. Right? o Jesus... XD I ever played so, why i try to change things... XD Please answer
Tectorman 05-13-07, 12:28 AM	Okay, I went through the same thing and here's what I learned: Read the description for Uncanny Dodge in Complete Adventurer; specifically, the Scout class description. It says that a Scout with Uncanny Dodge can't be caught flat-footed; it's a condition that can never apply to him. From what I've seen on the 3.5 FAQ and the Classes forum boards, that's what Wizards meant to say when they first wrote out the ability in the PHB; they just phrased it wrong. I also learned that one should never mention 4th Edition, and above all, never say it's name three times in a row.
Nom 05-13-07, 08:16 AM	Sorry for my ignorance. So if i am flat floated with a 2 level barbarian and my attacker is a 20 lv rogue it can't sneak attack me because, in the description isn't a minimum level attacker must have. Right? Only in the improved uncanny dodge it is cleared.Most of that is irrelevant. All you need to know is: (1) level 2 barbarian => uncanny dodge => don't lose Dex to AC when flat-footed (or when attacked by inivisible attacker) (2) flat footed, but retains Dex to AC. (3) retains Dex to AC => not vulnerable to sneak attack unless flanked The level comparison stuff is all Improved Uncanny Dodge, which applies to flanking, not losing Dex to AC.
spikevampire 05-14-07, 07:42 PM	ooooooooooooooooooooook
tos_shai_hulud 05-15-07, 12:30 AM	Additionally, if the level 2 barbarian is going against a rogue with the Improved Feint feat, the rogue could perform a feint. If he wins, your barbarian is denied his Dex bonus to AC versus the next attack from the rogue. That next attack would also be a sneak attack. Uncanny Dodge does not protect you from feints.