Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PaBLoX 02-20-07, 11:46 AM	There are a lot of questions... but please take sometime and help me... I REALLY need help... 1.- Is "logical" or "legit" (don't know the word) let a rogue "take 10" to search traps when is walking inside a dungeon, i mean the PC can "take 20" on each square but it slow the game a lot (in-game and out-game time). can the same works with move silently and hide checks? 2.- My PC are in lv. 7 (half way to lv 8), i made a "small city" that means a GP limit of 15000. For example i've a PC who loves to use scimitars... with his money is logical to let him buy 2 scimitars +2 (near 9000 gp) ?? (asuming the PC has the money).I've the same problem with all the PC, what do you think i should do? Maybe im just a little paranoid (or mad =P) but if i let him and i gave the 2 swords, the rules allow it, but im being too generous with him?? ps.- my player uses the 2 scimitars in 2 weapon fighting 3.- I've the manual in spanish and the "improved weapon fighting" have a requirement of BAB +9 , is that right? (in the table with all the requirements it says BAB +6) so im a little confused... My player read that in PHB in english (i think) the requisit is BAB +6. Could someone clear me that? 4.- this is related to my second question... maybe it's my idea, but to get a spellcaster cast a spell for you is fairly cheap? maybe im just misunderstanding something but i really need help in that point. 5.- a wizard can learn spells from scrolls, and generally buy scrolls is not that expensive, copy the spell to her spell book is not that difficult either (the PC is lv 7 with at least +12 in spell craft). How many scrolls i am supposed to let her buy? any number she can pay? (somewhere i read the size of the community can regulate the lv. of the spellcasters, but i dont remember where i read it and now i cant find it... 6.- maybe this can resume most of my questions... should i let my players buy anything they can afford?? including magic items (and of course taking the fact of the size of the community) 7.- is right when a cleric is being attacked to take a 5' step and cast a spell without provoking AoOs? I also have some soubts about "defensive casting" it says you need to make a concentration check to DC 15 + spell level to cast it without provoking AoO, a 7th level cleric with the combat casting feat can easy have +15 in a concentration, so to cast a 3rd level spell will have a DC 18, the PC can beat this very easy (obtaining a 3 or more). Im misunderstanding something about the "defensive casting"?? cause really this way i think a spellcaster only will provoke AoOs few times... 8.- tha last one... u_u Should i give the prices of the treasure to the PCs? that way they can divide it better?, or let them make apraise checks? I'm having a LOT of problems with that point... players fighting and that stuff... xD... no, not that serious, but anyway i need help.
Marcus Majarra 02-20-07, 12:32 PM	1) Taking 10 or taking 20 on search checks to find traps is legitimate, although the latter will significantly slow down in-game time. Neither should actually slow down out-game time, since you know what the rogue's check result will be. If it's equal or higher to that of any of your traps' search DCs, you indicate that the rogue found a trap. Taking 10 or taking 20 also works with hide and move silently checks (although characters taking 20 will be moving slower than a snail). More often than not, players will take 10 on their hide and move silently checks. 2) The availability of items is always up to the DM. The +2 scimitars are well within the city's GP limit, so they should be available for purchase. If you feel like it might be too easy, you could have your PC roll a Gather Information check to find the location of a shop/seller with the desired items. Obviously, the odds are that a second scimitar will be harder to find and you could impose a higher check DC. 3) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting requires BAB +6, among other requirements. You can always find the correct rules elements for Core D&D in the system reference document home page or at www.d20srd.org. 4) Spellcasting services are relatively inexpensive, but you need to make sure that the settlement the PCs are in has a spellcaster of sufficient level to cast the spell and that is willing to cast the spell. Most will be unwilling to cast spells in relation with illegal activities or that could have negative consequences. In some cases, the spellcaster will require that the chracters wait at least one day if he hasn't prepared the spell on that particular day. And this is only if the spellcaster has the spell available to him. 5) Again, the availability of scrolls is just like the availability of other items: it's up to you. If the community has an established wizard running a shop, it's safe to assume that he'll most likely have at least one scroll up for sale from the list of spells he has access to, up to a caster level equal to his own, of the spells he's willing to sell. 6) This is up to you. 7) If a spellcaster is threatened and he could move 5 feet and not be threatened anymore, he could very well take the 5-foot step before beginning to cast his spell and not provoke an attack of opportunity for doing so. And you understood how casting defensively works. It's obvious that a spellcaster investing highly into Concentration will rarely provoke attacks of opportunity. That's the staple of a battle caster. 8) No, you shouldn't let your players know how much a magic item costs until they identify it.
Inigo Carmine 02-20-07, 12:51 PM	There are a lot of questions... but please take sometime and help me... I REALLY need help... That's what we're here for. :) Due to time constraints, and spheres of expertise, I may skip some questions or answer only parts of them. 1.- Is "logical" or "legit" (don't know the word) let a rogue "take 10" to search traps when is walking inside a dungeon, i mean the PC can "take 20" on each square but it slow the game a lot (in-game and out-game time). can the same works with move silently and hide checks? Taking 20 really shouldn't take more time (out of game). If you think about it, it's not advantageous; it's just a means to save out of game time at the expense of ingame time. Back to your question though, yes. As long as you're not threatened or distracted you can take 10. This represents the average effort and is what most people do for most things every day in your life. It's the reason why you almost always tie your shoes correctly (take 10 on use rope check), except when you're running late for work, or when you're under the scrutiny of the company CEO, etc. I imagine the same would be true if a 300lb orc barbarian was bearing down on me with a 5-ft axe as well, but this is only as assumption due to lack of personal experience. ps.- my player uses the 2 scimitars in 2 weapon fighting Note the increased penalties for two scimitars; his his offhand weapon is not light. 3.- I've the manual in spanish and the "improved weapon fighting" have a requirement of BAB +9 , is that right? (in the table with all the requirements it says BAB +6) so im a little confused... My player read that in PHB in english (i think) the requisit is BAB +6. Could someone clear me that? If you are playing 3.5, the requirement is BAB 6+. 3.0 was BAB 9+, and so it might be an artifact left over from the earlier edition. WotC's editting department could be put to shame by your average 8 year old. This is sadly true of almost all roleplaying rulebooks. 4.- this is related to my second question... maybe it's my idea, but to get a spellcaster cast a spell for you is fairly cheap? maybe im just misunderstanding something but i really need help in that point. Please provide an example or two. I can't address the question until I know if you're calculating the cost incorrectly, or what your basis of "cheap" is. 5.- a wizard can learn spells from scrolls, and generally buy scrolls is not that expensive, copy the spell to her spell book is not that difficult either (the PC is lv 7 with at least +12 in spell craft). How many scrolls i am supposed to let her buy? any number she can pay? (somewhere i read the size of the community can regulate the lv. of the spellcasters, but i dont remember where i read it and now i cant find it... Generally, yes. She can have as many as she can buy. Note, for the purposes of learning spells, she might also find a wizard willing to loan her his spellbook to copy spells out of, usually at a cost of 50g*spell level per spell. Check the Wizard class description for more I believe. Note this supplants the cost of the scroll only, not the scribing cost. Also, this is more expensive for 1st level spells, but cheaper for all higher levels. As to availability limitations based on population, that's in the DMG under World Building I believe. To be honest, most DMs handwave this, but if you've never DMed before, or don't have a large amount of experience as a player, you might want to use it as a starting base and go from there. 6.- maybe this can resume most of my questions... should i let my players buy anything they can afford?? including magic items (and of course taking the fact of the size of the community) Assuming they have the appropriate amount of wealth for their level....sorta. It's really up to your own discretion and experience. There are certain items I disallow, period. Also, be very careful with creating new items that aren't listed (mostly in the wonderous item department; not single use items or weapons/armor). Many people don't follow the directions properly to begin with, and even then certain items can be well underpriced. The rules themselves remind the DM these are mere guidelines, and can still produce a very wrong price. 7.- is right when a cleric is being attacked to take a 5' step and cast a spell without provoking AoOs? I also have some soubts about "defensive casting" it says you need to make a concentration check to DC 15 + spell level to cast it without provoking AoO, a 7th level cleric with the combat casting feat can easy have +15 in a concentration, so to cast a 3rd level spell will have a DC 18, the PC can beat this very easy (obtaining a 3 or more). Im misunderstanding something about the "defensive casting"?? cause really this way i think a spellcaster only will provoke AoOs few times... Yes, this is correct. It is easy for a spellcaster to avoid ever provoking an AoO. As far as the 5-ft step goes, the way to prevent that is to: 1) back them into a corner/against a wall 2) flank/surround them 3) have something with reach attack it. If an ogre stands right next to the cleric, there is no safe place to 5-ft step to. Of course defensive casting removes the AoO anyways, so what a lot of people will do is ready an action to attack when the spell is cast. Ranged attacks are best for this (or large reach) to that the cleric can't 5-ft step and cast and be out of range for the readied action. 8.- tha last one... u_u Should i give the prices of the treasure to the PCs? that way they can divide it better?, or let them make apraise checks? I'm having a LOT of problems with that point... players fighting and that stuff... xD... no, not that serious, but anyway i need help. I usually do. your perogative though. I've been in groups that spent literally an entire session roleplaying going to town and haggling with shopkeepers over prices/etc. I prefer to get to the interesting plot points and combat. Most people I've played with feel the same way, so I just give the players the item worth (half its listed value) and say that's the best offer they found for selling it. In the end it comes down to playing style. Find out what you and your players like.
mvincent 02-20-07, 01:01 PM	I agree with Marcus Majarra's answers: 1.- Is "logical" or "legit" (don't know the word) let a rogue "take 10" to search trapsYes 2.- My PC are in lv. 7 (half way to lv 8), i made a "small city" that means a GP limit of 15000. For example i've a PC who loves to use scimitars... with his money is logical to let him buy 2 scimitars +2 (near 9000 gp) ?Yes 3.- I've the manual in spanish and the "improved weapon fighting" have a requirement of BAB +9 , is that right? (in the table with all the requirements it says BAB +6) It should be +6 4.- this is related to my second question... maybe it's my idea, but to get a spellcaster cast a spell for you is fairly cheap?That is correct. 5.- a wizard can learn spells from scrolls, and generally buy scrolls is not that expensive, copy the spell to her spell book is not that difficult either (the PC is lv 7 with at least +12 in spell craft). How many scrolls i am supposed to let her buy? any number she can pay? Usually yes. 6.- maybe this can resume most of my questions... should i let my players buy anything they can afford??Usually yes. 7.- is right when a cleric is being attacked to take a 5' step and cast a spell without provoking AoOs?Yes i think a spellcaster only will provoke AoOs few times...Correct 8.- Should i give the prices of the treasure to the PCs? that way they can divide it better?Assuming they identify it, yes. The cost to have the items identified (100+ gp per item) should probably be split amongst them also. Potions ands scrolls do not typically require this cost.
Nom 02-20-07, 06:49 PM	Taking 10 or taking 20 also works with hide and move silently checks (although characters taking 20 will be moving slower than a snail).Actually, the scenarios where you can meaningfully Take 20 on a Move Silently check are few and far between. Taking 20 is exactly equivalent to trying over and over again. I can just see the guards saying "Oh, don't mind him, that's the fourteenth time he's tried to sneak past without us hearing him". As for Hide checks, I work them like Disguise checks - the check is only resolved when a real opponent tries to observe you. Some DMs allow (IMO) wacko rules where the character keeps re-hiding vs a tame observer until they "hide well". Aid another is a much better way to handle this case.
mvincent 02-20-07, 07:12 PM	Actually, the scenarios where you can meaningfully Take 20 on a Move Silently check are few and far between. Exactly: "Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding."
Marcus Majarra 02-21-07, 02:48 AM	Now that I think of it, there's a more important reason why a character cannot take 20 on Hide and Move Silently checks: These skills do not have a DC. It's unlikely that you would be able to try many times while failing when there's no inherent difficulty to the skill you're using. The same logic would apply to similar skills, like Bluff or Disguise.
modrukinstealer 02-21-07, 02:28 PM	"4.- this is related to my second question... maybe it's my idea, but to get a spellcaster cast a spell for you is fairly cheap? maybe im just misunderstanding something but i really need help in that point." Since you said it is related to your 2nd question about magic items it sounds like you're thinking the players can hire a caster to cast whatever spell is needed to craft the scimitars. You'll want to keep in mind that if you are paying a NPC caster to cast a spell to create a magic item he needs to prepare and cast the spell each day the item is being worked on. So if you calculate the base price for an item and determine it will take 8 days to make an item you'll need to pay the caster 8 times to cast the spell. If you can make the item yourself and just don't have access to the spell it'll still be cheaper than straight up buying the same item at market price but won't be cheaper than if you made it yourself. Looks like the price for an NPC to cast a spell is 10gp * caster lvl * spell lvl , plus modifiers for if the spell takes XP to cast and for if it requires a focus. So with low lvl spells it's somewhat cheap but it adds up quick.
PaBLoX 02-22-07, 01:24 PM	thanks for your answers... I've another question: I could see how many weight a player can have..., but how you can make it have sense about the volume of those things? or I should obvious that? what do you do?
mvincent 02-22-07, 01:56 PM	I could see how many weight a player can have..., but how you can make it have sense about the volume of those things? or I should obvious that? what do you do?I'm unsure if I understand your english, but I'm guessing you're asking what prevents a player from say, keeping multiple polearms on his back. Yes, let common sense guide you. Your players should soon have a handy haversack anyway though, making this a non-issue.
Man in the Funny Hat 02-22-07, 10:39 PM	1.- Is "logical" or "legit" (don't know the word) let a rogue "take 10" to search traps when is walking inside a dungeon, i mean the PC can "take 20" on each square but it slow the game a lot (in-game and out-game time). can the same works with move silently and hide checks?It's logical if there's reason to expect that complete, absolute coverage of the entire dungeon with searching is needed or desireable. Is there a rumor of one particular wall that hides a treasure? Then it's logical to want to search the WHOLE dungeon or search it non-stop as you move through it. However, situations like that are going to be fairly rare and so, to take 10 just while moving through a dungeon "normally" is actually NOT normal. It actually means that rather than walking you are moving VERY slowly, even though you're taking 10, because you are ACTIVELY searching EVERYWHERE you go. What normally happens is that PC's move through the dungeon and where they suspect there might be more to find THEN they search. Otherwise what you're looking for them to do is make spot checks, not search checks. You can't take 20 on skill checks that have an inherent penalty for failure. 2.- My PC are in lv. 7 (half way to lv 8), i made a "small city" that means a GP limit of 15000. For example i've a PC who loves to use scimitars... with his money is logical to let him buy 2 scimitars +2 (near 9000 gp) ?? (asuming the PC has the money).I've the same problem with all the PC, what do you think i should do? Maybe im just a little paranoid (or mad =P) but if i let him and i gave the 2 swords, the rules allow it, but im being too generous with him?? ps.- my player uses the 2 scimitars in 2 weapon fightingFirst, the GP limit of ALL cities or towns is what YOU WANT IT TO BE. The chart in the DMG for random generation of towns is just that - random. Despite the silly importance people try to attach to it, it's really only INTENDED for quick generation of data about a town when you either don't have the time or desire to make up the details yourself (as the text actually states in that section). It's not "RULES". It's guidelines. So, if you want to allow something of a certain price to be available or not then it's your decision. Just try to be consistent. That said, while you may not want the PC to just walk in and buy a pair of +2 scimitars off the shelf there's little reason not to let him commission them to be made for him. This means interacting with NPC's not just buying something out of a sales catalog. In particular, if you've set a GP limit that's actually lower than the cost of one of those weapons then you can compensate by expecting an NPC who will actually do the work to charge just a little more rather than send the PC to a larger town. Otherwise, if the PC can afford it, let him spend his money as he likes. Keep an eye on the actual value of equipment for the PC's though too. You don't want them to become OVER-equipped for the level of their PC's. 4.- this is related to my second question... maybe it's my idea, but to get a spellcaster cast a spell for you is fairly cheap? maybe im just misunderstanding something but i really need help in that point.I don't know about the spanish version, but the english version has information about NPC spellcasting on p 107. 5.- a wizard can learn spells from scrolls, and generally buy scrolls is not that expensive, copy the spell to her spell book is not that difficult either (the PC is lv 7 with at least +12 in spell craft). How many scrolls i am supposed to let her buy? any number she can pay? (somewhere i read the size of the community can regulate the lv. of the spellcasters, but i dont remember where i read it and now i cant find it...Yep, let her buy as many as she wants to pay for... HOWEVER... Just because a spell is listed in the Players Handbook or DM's Guide that it MUST be available for purchase or to be made. Uncommon spells, those with high material component costs, and so forth are less likely to be readily available, and maybe not even at all. Keep open at least the POSSIBILITY, that one of the PC's may be the very first person EVER to learn a spell. I find it makes the world much more interesting. :) Don't be stingy, but then again, just because the PC's have money doesn't mean that when they want it to it mysteriously converts into an equivalent value of magic items whenever they're in a town. 6.- maybe this can resume most of my questions... should i let my players buy anything they can afford?? including magic items (and of course taking the fact of the size of the community)I strongly suggest not letting them buy just anything they can afford. The DM's Guide doesn't DICTATE how many spellcasters MUST be in your cities, nor what they charge, or what they make, or know how to make, etc. Let them find someone who makes magic weapons in one town, a cleric who will sell them healing potions at a SLIGHT discount at another if the PC's perform the occasional service for him, and another somewhere else who will sell just about anything - but only up to a certain value. Having said that, it's the PLAYERS decision as to what they want their characters to try to buy and why. Your job as DM is more to ensure that they don't wind up with TOO much value in magic and thus being more powerful than the game expects them to be. Should i give the prices of the treasure to the PCs? that way they can divide it better?, or let them make apraise checks? I'm having a LOT of problems with that point... players fighting and that stuff... xD... no, not that serious, but anyway i need help.If it will prevent arguments and make the game move ahead more smoothly, go ahead and just provide the standard values for treasure for the players. It's not THAT big of a deal. As a rule, however, it is for the CHARACTERS to decide how to divide treasure and the DM should only interfere when the PLAYERS are arguing about it unnecessarily. Here's a link to some thoughts and suggestions about dividing treasure on my website. http://home.earthlink.net/~duanevp/dnd/auction.htm
Toki_Wartooth 02-23-07, 11:50 AM	I strongly suggest not letting them buy just anything they can afford.Why?
Man in the Funny Hat 02-24-07, 05:04 PM	Why? Because there is a great deal of worldbuilding (and player interest in that world) to be generated in NOT having just a GP limit be the defining factor in what can be bought. In particular, treating spellcasting and magical items as simple commodities and ordinary services, like buying a backpack or a bath, effectively eliminates the idea of magic as anything actually special. When every town, every store, every shopkeeper sells the same stuff with no variation (save for the maximum value) your world becomes that much more dull and lifeless. Now there's no reason to take that to extremes. After all, sometimes there ISN'T any reason not to just let them buy what they want - but not ALL the time, not EVERYWHERE. Something so simple as having the first shopkeeper the PC's speak to tell them that to buy item X they must speak with NPC Y does amazing things to bring a game world to life. Even if NPC Y then sells the widget without a nanoseconds hesitation you have still reinforced the idea that the world is not a giant Wal-Mart, as well as introduced an NPC source for information and adventure hooks without even needing to try.
Sildatorak 02-26-07, 10:50 AM	I could see how many weight a player can have..., but how you can make it have sense about the volume of those things? or I should obvious that? what do you do?The rules don't cover volume for the sake of simplicity. It is basically a DM call. The easy answer is to put a bag of holding into the treasure you give them.