Vow of Poverty + Apostle of Peace [Archive] - Wizards Community

Vow of Poverty + Apostle of Peace [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Farodin
10-03-07, 09:39 AM Hi,

One of my players wants to become an Apostle of Peace (BoED). Among the prerequisites of the prestige class is the Vow of Poverty feat. In the paragraph about weapon and armor proficieny, the following is written:
As part of their sacred vows, apostles of peace forswear the use of armor, though they may wear magic items that protect them (such as a ring of protection or bracers of armor). He argues this overrides the restrictions of his Vow of Poverty, and that he should be able to wear bracers of armor, a monks belt, and other similar stuff. In my opinion this is just some error, probably becuse of bad proofreading, as it goes against the whole idea of the vow of poverty (not having valuable items). I told him he couldn't do it. In the end however, he (sort of) convinced me of getting some second opinions. What do you think about this?
Green_eyes
10-03-07, 10:01 AM Read this first (http://www.enworld.org/archive/index.php/t-153004.html)
Farodin
10-03-07, 11:20 AM No clear cut answer...

Ah well, in that case I will just stick to my opinion.

Either way; thanks for the link. (I probably should have searched a bit more before making a new thread about this. - sorry)
heffroncm
10-03-07, 01:05 PM I would go 1 of two ways with it:

1) The class allows them to use magic protective itmes, not own them. The party is still out his share of treasure, and he has to hope someone would buy an item and lend it to him. His character would never ask for such a boon. He would not be able to use an item that provided any sort of offensive benefit, such as a Monk's Belt.

2) Change the PrC recquirements. Substitute any other Vow for Vow of Poverty.
maurezen
10-03-07, 03:26 PM First is not a way, IIRC, because Vow of Poverty explicitly states that you can't "borrow" a magic item from your party.
heffroncm
10-03-07, 03:38 PM First is not a way, IIRC, because Vow of Poverty explicitly states that you can't "borrow" a magic item from your party.

You're correct. That's the part of the feat I allow an exception to, as the class specifically allows you to use such an item, not own it. I'm going on the notion that class abilities can alter a feat. For referance, see Incantantrix, Anima Mage, Frenzied Berserker, etc etc.
Green_eyes
10-04-07, 04:04 AM No clear cut answer...

Ah well, in that case I will just stick to my opinion.

Either way; thanks for the link. (I probably should have searched a bit more before making a new thread about this. - sorry)

No problem. I had lots of problem with this feat and PrC as well. It requires lots of roleplaying and cooperation between the player and the DM. Hardcore stuff.

Not for munchkins really. Though a roleplaying optimizer would profit greatly in a low-magic campaign.
Farodin
10-04-07, 04:26 PM No problem. I had lots of problem with this feat and PrC as well. It requires lots of roleplaying and cooperation between the player and the DM. Hardcore stuff.

Not for munchkins really. Though a roleplaying optimizer would profit greatly in a low-magic campaign.

Yeah, after having looked into the prestige class and vows a bit more, I think I will just - persuade - him not to play one at all. He is the kind of player who roleplays as little as he can get away with, and he is a munchkin (But he is still unable to make good streamlined optimized builds; stacks 4 templates on top of each other, then goes straight fighter and calls it "a really cool character" because it has a strength of 56...)
Mejdrich
10-07-07, 03:50 PM Yeah, after having looked into the prestige class and vows a bit more, I think I will just - persuade - him not to play one at all. He is the kind of player who roleplays as little as he can get away with, and he is a munchkin ...

Yea, probably a good idea. If you let an Apostle of Peace into your game, bracers of armor are going to be the least of your problems. Imagine how disruptive Paladins can be, now increase that by a factor of God.
goawayugh
10-09-07, 01:19 PM Yeah, after having looked into the prestige class and vows a bit more, I think I will just - persuade - him not to play one at all. He is the kind of player who roleplays as little as he can get away with, and he is a munchkin (But he is still unable to make good streamlined optimized builds; stacks 4 templates on top of each other, then goes straight fighter and calls it "a really cool character" because it has a strength of 56...)

There is a reason that BoED has a "mature" warning on it. A lot of that book has heavy RP restrictions. He does not sound like a player that can do it right. I would not ban it outright for him. Talk to him about it, explain the RP restrictions and that he will really have to play it right. If he can't play it right, he loses the abilities, as per the feat description itself.

Sidenote: I have an epic Monk/Hound Archon Bloodline/Saint/Apostle of Peace that is INSANELY powerful. He could probably take on CRs almost 10 higher than his ECL. But, he doesn't. He can't. He is peaceful. Best RP experience I've every had (and I usually play casters!).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Farodin 10-03-07, 09:39 AM	Hi, One of my players wants to become an Apostle of Peace (BoED). Among the prerequisites of the prestige class is the Vow of Poverty feat. In the paragraph about weapon and armor proficieny, the following is written: As part of their sacred vows, apostles of peace forswear the use of armor, though they may wear magic items that protect them (such as a ring of protection or bracers of armor). He argues this overrides the restrictions of his Vow of Poverty, and that he should be able to wear bracers of armor, a monks belt, and other similar stuff. In my opinion this is just some error, probably becuse of bad proofreading, as it goes against the whole idea of the vow of poverty (not having valuable items). I told him he couldn't do it. In the end however, he (sort of) convinced me of getting some second opinions. What do you think about this?
Green_eyes 10-03-07, 10:01 AM	Read this first (http://www.enworld.org/archive/index.php/t-153004.html)
Farodin 10-03-07, 11:20 AM	No clear cut answer... Ah well, in that case I will just stick to my opinion. Either way; thanks for the link. (I probably should have searched a bit more before making a new thread about this. - sorry)
heffroncm 10-03-07, 01:05 PM	I would go 1 of two ways with it: 1) The class allows them to use magic protective itmes, not own them. The party is still out his share of treasure, and he has to hope someone would buy an item and lend it to him. His character would never ask for such a boon. He would not be able to use an item that provided any sort of offensive benefit, such as a Monk's Belt. 2) Change the PrC recquirements. Substitute any other Vow for Vow of Poverty.
maurezen 10-03-07, 03:26 PM	First is not a way, IIRC, because Vow of Poverty explicitly states that you can't "borrow" a magic item from your party.
heffroncm 10-03-07, 03:38 PM	First is not a way, IIRC, because Vow of Poverty explicitly states that you can't "borrow" a magic item from your party. You're correct. That's the part of the feat I allow an exception to, as the class specifically allows you to use such an item, not own it. I'm going on the notion that class abilities can alter a feat. For referance, see Incantantrix, Anima Mage, Frenzied Berserker, etc etc.
Green_eyes 10-04-07, 04:04 AM	No clear cut answer... Ah well, in that case I will just stick to my opinion. Either way; thanks for the link. (I probably should have searched a bit more before making a new thread about this. - sorry) No problem. I had lots of problem with this feat and PrC as well. It requires lots of roleplaying and cooperation between the player and the DM. Hardcore stuff. Not for munchkins really. Though a roleplaying optimizer would profit greatly in a low-magic campaign.
Farodin 10-04-07, 04:26 PM	No problem. I had lots of problem with this feat and PrC as well. It requires lots of roleplaying and cooperation between the player and the DM. Hardcore stuff. Not for munchkins really. Though a roleplaying optimizer would profit greatly in a low-magic campaign. Yeah, after having looked into the prestige class and vows a bit more, I think I will just - persuade - him not to play one at all. He is the kind of player who roleplays as little as he can get away with, and he is a munchkin (But he is still unable to make good streamlined optimized builds; stacks 4 templates on top of each other, then goes straight fighter and calls it "a really cool character" because it has a strength of 56...)
Mejdrich 10-07-07, 03:50 PM	Yeah, after having looked into the prestige class and vows a bit more, I think I will just - persuade - him not to play one at all. He is the kind of player who roleplays as little as he can get away with, and he is a munchkin ... Yea, probably a good idea. If you let an Apostle of Peace into your game, bracers of armor are going to be the least of your problems. Imagine how disruptive Paladins can be, now increase that by a factor of God.
goawayugh 10-09-07, 01:19 PM	Yeah, after having looked into the prestige class and vows a bit more, I think I will just - persuade - him not to play one at all. He is the kind of player who roleplays as little as he can get away with, and he is a munchkin (But he is still unable to make good streamlined optimized builds; stacks 4 templates on top of each other, then goes straight fighter and calls it "a really cool character" because it has a strength of 56...) There is a reason that BoED has a "mature" warning on it. A lot of that book has heavy RP restrictions. He does not sound like a player that can do it right. I would not ban it outright for him. Talk to him about it, explain the RP restrictions and that he will really have to play it right. If he can't play it right, he loses the abilities, as per the feat description itself. Sidenote: I have an epic Monk/Hound Archon Bloodline/Saint/Apostle of Peace that is INSANELY powerful. He could probably take on CRs almost 10 higher than his ECL. But, he doesn't. He can't. He is peaceful. Best RP experience I've every had (and I usually play casters!).